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worst sci-fi TV series of post 1964

As to the topic.... I didn't take offense at Dennis' comment, but instead saw it as a bit of parody on the discussion. He seems to feel your stance is too extreme, and is using the vehicle of films about Christ to make a point.

Hollywood films about religious topics are themselves exemplars of the odd confluence of business sense, personal enthusiasms and artistic striving - yeah, that last does poke its nose in, occasionally - that encourage the continual reuse of familiar material. It's a positive virtue, from a commercial POV, that everyone knows these stories and a lot of people already like them - and moreover, have liked them again and again and again.

As someone put it recently, what the studio folks know is that someone has paid to see these things at least once, which is more than they know about something new.

The source material can be folk myth - "Robin Hood" - or religious stories concerning Moses or Christ or Noah's ark, or modern inventions like the Bram Stoker Dracula or Frankenstein, or a popular book or previous movie of the last few decades. What the folk and religious mythology, as well as older popular culture characters, have in common and as an advantage are that they belong to no one; no rights to The Three Musketeers need be secured and no money split with the copyright or trademark holders.

Or, as DeMille famously explained his reasoning for making Biblical films, when asked by an admirer: "Three thousand years of advance publicity."
 
Expo67... try to make use of the Edit button and or the Multi-quote button when you have multiple things to say. It helps keep the discussion a bit more streamlined.


As to the topic.... I didn't take offense at Dennis' comment, but instead saw it as a bit of parody on the discussion. He seems to feel your stance is too extreme, and is using the vehicle of films about Christ to make a point.

Regarding remakes though..... my take is that there does come a point where it seems Hollywood is bereft of any originality. Remaking:" earlier films and stories almost seems to be taking the easy way out. To be sure, many remakes do seem to be little more than a waste of time ("Psycho" for example). I tend wonder why studios do remake a classic, widely regarded success when so much time is past. It seems a dicey proposition at best.

I believe those were the points that I was trying to make, Neroon.

You may think that remakes might bring a new appreciation for the earlier version, but it can sometimes cause a negative backlash against it. That is something that can't be ruled out.
 
Public domain titles are always going to be the most popular subjects in terms of sheer density of film. It's automatic marquee value if it's a well known story, and you pay nothing for the name.

Oh and for my money, Enrique Irazoqui was the best Jesus.

To be sure, many remakes do seem to be little more than a waste of time ("Psycho" for example).

And yet Gus Van Sant's Psycho, while terrible, was plainly made for artistic reasons rather than commerical ones. It's a loving extended homage to a classic, if you want films that existed pretty much just to cash in on the marquee value... well, those are the sequels.

You may think that remakes might bring a new appreciation for the earlier version, but it can sometimes cause a negative backlash against it. That is something that can't be ruled out.

Funny story: When I heard they were remaking V, I took that as the escuse to finally watch the original miniseries. When I heard the remake was bad, I never got around to watching it.
 
Expo67... try to make use of the Edit button and or the Multi-quote button when you have multiple things to say. It helps keep the discussion a bit more streamlined.


As to the topic.... I didn't take offense at Dennis' comment, but instead saw it as a bit of parody on the discussion. He seems to feel your stance is too extreme, and is using the vehicle of films about Christ to make a point.

Regarding remakes though..... my take is that there does come a point where it seems Hollywood is bereft of any originality. Remaking:" earlier films and stories almost seems to be taking the easy way out. To be sure, many remakes do seem to be little more than a waste of time ("Psycho" for example). I tend wonder why studios do remake a classic, widely regarded success when so much time is past. It seems a dicey proposition at best.

I believe those were the points that I was trying to make, Neroon.

You may think that remakes might bring a new appreciation for the earlier version, but it can sometimes cause a negative backlash against it. That is something that can't be ruled out.

I can't think of an example that has been known to have a remake bring a distaste for a prior version.

However, I have seen many times, someone has watched a modern remake of something and thought it wasn't any good or was so-so, and someone has told them, "Oh, you need to watch the original (Oftentimes, not the original, but, the first version the person is familiar with), it's excellent". Also, remakes, often cause a new release for the prior version(s) or make a viewer (on their own) decide to check out a prior version

With your BSG example, I don't see in anyway, how Ronald D. Moore's version damages the Glen Larson, but, you seem so upset by it, like you really believe that in some way it has damaged the Glen Larson version. Glen Larson version is still there, intact on DVD, nothing happened to it?

ETA - Hmmm...Well, I guess Kegg came in while I was posting and gave an example. I guess some people are swayed by it, doesn't make any sense to me, but, OK
 
As someone put it recently, what the studio folks know is that someone has paid to see these things at least once, which is more than they know about something new.
True. With the ever-rising cost of making movies. studios want all that they can get to reduce their risk. If they create a filmed story that has worked before, it is understandable that they'd want to try that again to increase the likelihood of success or at least minimize the risk of failure.

Or, as DeMille famously explained his reasoning for making Biblical films, when asked by an admirer: "Three thousand years of advance publicity."
:lol:

I believe those were the points that I was trying to make, Neroon.

You may think that remakes might bring a new appreciation for the earlier version, but it can sometimes cause a negative backlash against it. That is something that can't be ruled out.
But you seem to be taking a more sever stance against remakes. I am not saying that remakes always will bring that new appreciation. I am simply saying that it is a potential benefit, a possible outcome. I don't like the idea of messing around with classics, but then I'm not in the business of making movies in the first place. It may not always work - and often it doesn't - but it very often DOES work. So I allow for the possibility, even if it isn't my preference.

Incidentally, this was the subject of a successful panel discussion at a convention I attended this past weekend.


To be sure, many remakes do seem to be little more than a waste of time ("Psycho" for example).

And yet Gus Van Sant's Psycho, while terrible, was plainly made for artistic reasons rather than commerical ones. It's a loving extended homage to a classic, if you want films that existed pretty much just to cash in on the marquee value... well, those are the sequels.
Although I will never be a fan of the Van Sant version, I was thinking more of the sequels. My bad on not being as clear as I needed to be
 
Christ, how many versions of Alexander Dumas' The Three Musketeers do we need?


Do you think we would have been better off without Lester's version?

As much as I like Michael York, Charlton Heston, Oliver Reed, Christopher Lee, Simon Ward, and Raquel Welch(I mean who doesn't like Raquel, let alone looking at her)...well, I hate to say this, but given the fact that the classic story has been remade way too many times(let alone the Seventies version being distributed by the Salkinds and directed by Richard Lester - both of whom would end up seriously derailing the Superman franchise with the absurd Superman III), I'd say, we probably would have been better off without it.

.


Gotta disagree with you there. It's a classic film that's given enjoyment to millions. The world is richer with it than without it.

(As for the behind-the-scenes stuff . . . well, that's a whole other issue. If we start rejecting movies because somebody associated with it screwed somebody else out of some money, or made another movie that we didn't like, that way madness lies.)
 
I can't think of an example that has been known to have a remake bring a distaste for a prior version.

Actually, there's a very recent example of a remake that has been praised as a better film than the original version - True Grit. While some folks have said that they prefer John Wayne's larger-than-life character from the original, very few reviewers or folks familiar with both consider the earlier movie to be a better film per se.

One critic remarked that whenever he saw a remake of a great film he wondered why no one ever remade mediocre flicks in order to improve them, citing True Grit as an exception.

Instructively, the Coen brothers drew their version from the source material rather than the previous film.
 
I can't think of an example that has been known to have a remake bring a distaste for a prior version.

Actually, there's a very recent example of a remake that has been praised as a better film than the original version - True Grit. While some folks have said that they prefer John Wayne's larger-than-life character from the original, very few reviewers or folks familiar with both consider the earlier movie to be a better film per se.

One critic remarked that whenever he saw a remake of a great film he wondered why no one ever remade mediocre flicks in order to improve them, citing True Grit as an exception.

Instructively, the Coen brothers drew their version from the source material rather than the previous film.

Nevertheless, Jeff Bridges(no offense to him and his talent)can't fill the shoes that John Wayne filled with that particular character. A character that the Duke won his only Oscar for.

I'll take the 1969 film over the Coen brothers bastardization any day of the week.
 
I can't think of an example that has been known to have a remake bring a distaste for a prior version.

Actually, there's a very recent example of a remake that has been praised as a better film than the original version - True Grit. While some folks have said that they prefer John Wayne's larger-than-life character from the original, very few reviewers or folks familiar with both consider the earlier movie to be a better film per se.

One critic remarked that whenever he saw a remake of a great film he wondered why no one ever remade mediocre flicks in order to improve them, citing True Grit as an exception.

Instructively, the Coen brothers drew their version from the source material rather than the previous film.
Did the new True Grit damage the original though? Anyone who now won't watch it again, who treasured it before?
 
Then, just to show the flipside of that coin, we have Arthur. A nice little comedy of the early 80's remade into a piece of crap. Though I tend to think remakes of comedies don't work in general.
 
I mentioned the Gus Van Sant's Psycho as the type of remake that doesn't need to be made, but I have no problem of a retelling of a classic story.

For example, the horrifically bad remake of Wicker Man with Cage does not make me stop liking the original classic Scottish Pagan Musical Horror...
 
I'll take the 1969 film over the Coen brothers bastardization any day of the week.
Except that the Coen's adaptation is far more true to the source material than the 1969 film was, which truly was far more of a bastardization of the novel than the 2010 "remake".

BTW, while I always liked the Duke, and rushed to see his every film when they first came out, his Academy Award for Best Actor is about as warranted as when notorious pill-popper Elvis Presley was granted status as a drug-enforcement agent by Richard Nixon in 1970. The Duke had the dramatic range of a cabbage, and it is widely accepted that his Oscar was primarily political.

And I take exception to your notion that the Richard Lester "Three Musketeers" needn't have been made. The fact is, that critics are almost universal in praising it as the definitive film version of the Dumas' tale. Truth be told, it's just about the only film version that should have been made.
 
Nevertheless, Jeff Bridges(no offense to him and his talent)can't fill the shoes that John Wayne filled with that particular character.

John Wayne wasn't playing a character in True Grit, he was playing John Wayne which is what he's been doing since Stagecoach. Jeff Bridges actually acted and created a believable character which automatically makes his performance superior.

A character that the Duke won his only Oscar for.

Everybody knows that Oscar was given to him out of pity (just like Al Pacino was given an Oscar for "Scent of a Woman" which is certainly not his best role).
 
Some interesting recent examples cited here:
V - bored by what I saw of remake so have no desire of see original (although read it is better if dated)
BSG - loved RDM version, no desire to see original.
Psycho - love original; liked remake (interesting artistic failure, and has Viggo in it)
UFO - Brit SF series currently watching; dated but would still be interested in remake...

I still believe: remake/reboot or be damned. Otherwise, won't we just have artistic stagnation?
 
Except that the Coen's adaptation is far more true to the source material than the 1969 film was, which truly was far more of a bastardization of the novel than the 2010 "remake". .

Exactly so.

The Coen brothers were more faithful to the story as envisioned and told by its author than the makers of the first movie. Therefore, if one is going to make assertions regarding primacy of intent and respect (or lack of it) for creators then the Coens have the better claim to respect.

This apparent extreme insistence that "remakes are wrong" fails on every level.

It fails on the evidence.

It fails as a matter of logic.

It even - perhaps most especially - fails in the attempt to maintain that the "originals" (in those few cases where the poster has correctly identified the original versions, rather than having it pointed out time and again that there were earlier examples extant) have some moral or artistic claim to special respect.

There's not actually a sensible argument to be made that "all remakes are bad" - what's going on here is a single poster asserting that to be true, over and over, providing no persuasive argument to defend the claim and seeing it dismantled or dismissed by just about everyone else who's posted on the subject...all based on evidence and logic.
 
This is true - the '81 version is a pretty bad movie, essentially an unimpressive rerun of work Harryhausen did better on Jason And The Argonauts.

As a child I loved Clash of the Titans; I doubt my tastes have improved since then but, apart from Maggie Smith, that film doesn't offer anything to todays audiences anymore; the remake wasn't very good though - fun but not very good.

I'm still hoping that they'll get a remake of Forbidden Planet together sometime in the near future. The original is probably my favorite science fiction movie of all time.

The best damn Star Trek-pilot ever! ;)
 
It even - perhaps most especially - fails in the attempt to maintain that the "originals" (in those few cases where the poster has correctly identified the original versions, rather than having it pointed out time and again that there were earlier examples extant) have some moral or artistic claim to special respect.

Exactly. The first version is not, by definition, the best, especially when it comes to movie adaptations of preexisting books, plays, comics, etc.

Cases in point: The Three Musketeers, The Maltese Falcon, The Hunchback of Notre Dame, Tarzan, Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde, The Wizard of Oz, The Lord of the Rings, Batman, Superman, and (arguably) The Fly, The Blob, and The Thing . . . .

And that's just off the top of my head!
 
I like the Gene Kelly/Vincent Price version of The Three Musketeers and I like the Richard Lester version from the early seventies. Would we better off if Lester had decided to skip his version because it had been done before?


Funny you should mention this. Saw a preview for a new Three Musketeers before Thor yesterday. Hope you like wire foo.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1509767/

Christ, how many versions of Alexander Dumas' The Three Musketeers do we need?

As many as we can possible get.
 
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