World War 3 happened in ST, could it happen in real life?
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Of course, one of the inevitabilities of world history and politics is that it cannot be predicted with any guarantee of accuracy. How many people would have predicted twenty-five years ago that the Soviet Union would collapse? Or that a black man would be elected President of the United States?
But of course, any attempt to predict the future is never going to give completely accurate results. We can try and guess at what is going to happen, but it is impossible to predict what individuals will do and how we will affect the future. One man deciding to shoot Franz Ferdinand threw Europe into WWI (although this probably would have happened anyway, just at a later date).
However, that report I was referring to is hard to dispute because it is describing exactly what is happening at the moment. America is currently losing influence in the world, China is becoming more powerful, Russia is trying to regain control of what it lost and the EU is incompetent on the world stage.
Columbia has drugs and weapons, Venezuela has oil, who knows what may yet be undiscovered in the Amazon, and the continent is chock full of military dictatorship-type governments that seem to have "fight" as their default setting.
I remember my Grade 12 Social Studies class, in 1979... we had to write an essay on World War III, and it was flabbergasting to me how many students said it was an impossible assignment because "WWIII hasn't happened yet."
Yet. What a horrible expectation. But as a previous poster said, I do think the foundation has been laid for it, more than a decade ago. I don't know enough about world politics to pinpoint the time/place, but I daresay September 11 will be one of the milestone points.
In the meantime, Canadian soldiers are dying in Afghanistan, the Taliban are still strong and threatening to kill any girls who dare to go to school, and the U.S. is STILL piddling around in Iraq...
thanx for the replys guys, very interesting stuff and opinions.
i think you lot should look at www.infowars.com if you havent already, especially if you're american. this is this where the real news is that the main stream media keeps from you...
i think you lot should look at www.infowars.com if you havent already, especially if you're american. this is this where the real news is that the main stream media keeps from you...
Woah. You have an interesting idea of real news. The idea of a massive "elite" conspiracy manipulating the world cracks me up. It presupposes 2 impossibilities.
First, it assumes a large number of people all working towards the same goal while playing political-economic power games. You can't get a room full of people to whistle Yankee Doodle together, little less steer the global society to a predetermined end point!
Second, it runs on the idea that all of these so-called "elite" are very intelligent. They'd have to be to design and control this "plan" while keeping the wool pulled over everyone else's eyes. I've worked amongst the general public for decades and for every intelligent person I've encountered, there's a hundred dim bulbs struggling to shine. I mean, have you actually read some of the posts and replies on this BBS?
And Star Trek fans tend to be a bit brighter than the average man on the street......
Exactly. Microsoft can't even stop its latest OS beta from being released early, and they are one of the most powerful corporations on the planet. How could a giant conspiracy involving governments and industries all over the world ever manage to hold itself together?
The media isn't trying to hide real news from people, the fact is that people don't want real news so the media doesn't put it on TV as nobody will watch it. Most of the stuff that happens in the world would go over the head of the average person anyway, you must remember that half the people on this planet have a lower than average level of intelligence.
The media works on the principle of telling stories because that is what humans have been doing since we started being human. Raw information is not a story. This is why a story about a cat getting stuck up a tree and needing to be rescued by firemen gets on the news, while the latest data being gathered from CERN does not. One has the possibility of utterly changing how we look at the history of this universe, and the other is a story which is of interest to the average person.
The only conspiracy here is the stupidity of humanity.
Which would be bullshit idiot-speak. GWB called the War on Terror "WW3", and he's an idiot. Call me when the Jihadists kill 50 million people in 5 years.
I've heard the more serious argument that the cold war was just an extension of WW2 committed by proxy, but I don't agree with that either. All of history is intertwined and interconnected, wars often lead to situations that prompt other wars down the road. The Cold War was not WW3, we did not have open worldwide warfare, most of Europe and North America and other places in the world thrived in the latter half of the 20th century.
When and if there is a WW3 deserving of the name, you will know it.
Not only do i think one day there will be a WWWIII but iam also afraid that in the future there could even be second US Civil War.
It scary how divided alot of the people here are over things that should not be divideing people.
i really hope we never see either but iam fearful one or both could happen
It scary how divided alot of the people here are over things that should not be divideing people.
i really hope we never see either but iam fearful one or both could happen
How do you think this Civil war might happen? What would be the two sides?
I really think that's unlikely.
Borders and nations change and I think in the next 100 yrs it's possible parts of the US could face culture conquest. Conquered without a bullet ever being fired in war. 10% of Americans don't speak English but Spanish, thanks in part to illegal immigration and lack of legal jobs and lack of education for these immigrant ethnic groups. I could very well see a day when California, Puerto Rico and Texas all see themselves closer to Mexico, heck even that MooseHunting Barbie doll from Alaska talked about breaking away from the United States in an act of secession and Gov Palin painted herself as an uber conservative patriot.
well first of all WWIII doesnt have to be a traditional east vs. west conflict. It is more likly that it will be east vs. east with russia not as a main player but an agitator and arms dealer. The US and Nato unfortantly are caught in the middle
but i foresee it is more likly india lays the smack down on pakistan, and China and Iran are both not going to let one of there allies for a diffrent reason get owned by India so they join aginst them. The Chinese and Indians blast each other with nukes and a few rogue ones to devastate europe, russia, america and its allies, Hence after that we have what is now complained about as the euro or american centric startrek but it makes sence and is a very realistic senecario
PS forgive the spelling
but i foresee it is more likly india lays the smack down on pakistan, and China and Iran are both not going to let one of there allies for a diffrent reason get owned by India so they join aginst them. The Chinese and Indians blast each other with nukes and a few rogue ones to devastate europe, russia, america and its allies, Hence after that we have what is now complained about as the euro or american centric startrek but it makes sence and is a very realistic senecario
PS forgive the spelling
Here's what you're forgetting: The fundamental basis of American political culture has always been mutual partnership. That's why the state legislatures ratified the US Constitution, that's why the Constitution has been amended 26 times, that's why we elect a new Congress every two years and a new President every four years. The times when the fabric of American society was most in danger--the Civil War, slavery, Jim Crow, racial oppression, economic oppression, sexual oppression -- was a group was not treated as an equal partner, but as a resource to be exploited or as a potential threat. What you're describing could only happen if Latino Americans are not treated as equal partners, but as a potential threat.
American culture has proven remarkably resilient and infinitely flexible, because it doesn't rely on any one ethnic group. From Day One, American culture has been about taking in different cultures and mixing them together. People used to worry that having too many Irishmen would threaten other Americans, or that African-Americans would have no loyalty to the United States, etc. But, hell, look what happened -- we brought them in, and two cultures became one, and now we've had both Irish-American Presidents and, now, an African-American President.
You're correct in noting that the influx of Latino Americans presents a challenge. We have to find a way to assimilate them into our society -- to integrate the best aspects of their culture into ours, and for them to absorb the portions of the larger American culture they need to live here whilst still preserving their own unique identity. But you're dead wrong in arguing that Latino Americans represent a potential threat to the United States. Latinos are just like any other group of Americans: If they're treated as the same kind of equal partner in American society that Irish, English, German, African, Asian, Native, and any other kind of American you think of is, they'll be loyal to the United States. Loyalty has to go both ways, of course, but that's always been the basis of American political culture: Mutual partnership.
1. Governor Palin is not a politically credible person and never was. Her statements should be disregarded; Alaska needs the United States as much as the United States needs Alaska. If Alaska were to declare independence, it would be overrun by the Russians within a generation -- and besides, most Alaskans do not favor independence.
2. Puerto Rico is its own unique society and always has been. It is not and has never been a part of Mexico, and in point of fact is variation of Spanish is a bit different from Mexico's. Arguing that Puerto Rico could somehow feel closer to Mexico than the US is like arguing that Maine could feel closer to Canada than the US -- it's an absurd statement that betrays a fundamental ignorance of Puerto Rico's history. And, besides, Puerto Rico has always been a majority Spanish-speaking island; nothing's changing there.
3. It is certainly true that the Latino population of California and Texas are increasing and it is certainly true that many are of Mexican descent and feel some affection and loyalty for Mexico. This does not mean that they are disloyal to the United States, or feel MORE loyal to Mexico. I should know -- my uncle is a Mexican-American whose family was living in Texas when it went from being Mexican to US territory. "We didn't cross the border, the border crossed us!" And I certainly understand feeling loyalty for the Old Country -- my ancestors came over from England in 1911, and I still feel a strong connection and loyalty to the United Kingdom. But my first loyalty is to the United States, and as long as Latino Americans are treated as Americans, their first loyalty will be to the U.S., too. Treat people like dogs and you'll get bitten; treat people like mutual partners and you'll have a union that will last for centuries.
^^^Thank you. That is one of the best reasoned arguments I've seen on this BBS (faint praise, I know 
).
If you had asked anyone in the 50s or 80s (as examples) of whether or not nuclear war was inevitable, the answer would have most likely been "yes". Thank God it never did. If our nations' leaders act at the height of their intelligence, this scenario will only exist in our nightmares. It is only when national pissing contests begin that this becomes more likely.
Dinosaurs.
).If you had asked anyone in the 50s or 80s (as examples) of whether or not nuclear war was inevitable, the answer would have most likely been "yes". Thank God it never did. If our nations' leaders act at the height of their intelligence, this scenario will only exist in our nightmares. It is only when national pissing contests begin that this becomes more likely.
Dinosaurs.
It will happen. Wars are sadly part of human nature and a "World War" will happen again. The only thing is that we have no way of predicting how it will be fought. A nuclear Armageddon is unlikely, except as an-end game scenario. Any use of "tactical" nukes will only lead to retaliation and eventually the MAD scenario. Even if it doesn't, it will lead to proliferation as no country will feel safe without their own nukes. To those who say America will break apart, right now it is far-fetched but not impossible in the future. History has shown time and again, empires, kingdoms and countries break apart, dissolves or are defeated, even after hundreds of years of rule. If you met someone from Victorian Britain and told them that in a 100 years, the British Empire will crumble, they would laugh at you. Not that I wish the US will crumble (I'm non-USian). Also, anyone who uses the term "Islamofascist" non-jokingly, should not be taken seriously.
[QUOTE
How do you think this Civil war might happen? What would be the two sides?[/QUOTE]
The coastal states VS. secessionist states in the middle? Look at the political map from election time. All blue along the coasts and all red over the vast majority of the American land mass. The coasts have much more population and therefore an electoral advantage. Many in middle America aren't very happy that such a small percentage of the country has such a large say in how the country is run. There were similar sentiments in the 1850's when many Southerners felt that the North had unbalanced superiority of Congressional representation because (again) of population. Ironically, if the south had only given black people the right to vote, instead of treating them as 2/3 of a person, this imbalance could have been stabilized.
How do you think this Civil war might happen? What would be the two sides?[/QUOTE]
The coastal states VS. secessionist states in the middle? Look at the political map from election time. All blue along the coasts and all red over the vast majority of the American land mass. The coasts have much more population and therefore an electoral advantage. Many in middle America aren't very happy that such a small percentage of the country has such a large say in how the country is run. There were similar sentiments in the 1850's when many Southerners felt that the North had unbalanced superiority of Congressional representation because (again) of population. Ironically, if the south had only given black people the right to vote, instead of treating them as 2/3 of a person, this imbalance could have been stabilized.
Oh, not this shit again.
Sarah Palin was never a member of the Independence Party. Her *husband* was, at one point, but he quit.
Fair enough, but pick on TheMasterOfOrion for that mistake, not me.
If another World war does happen, then those in charge are idiots for letting it happen.
Of course the general population is even more idiotic for allowing their governments into making those decisions.
Not everyone agrees to wage a war.
It's the governments that make these decisions, and who ends up in the firefight?
Civilians for the most part.
A third world war is hardly necessary, but given the people in power, their mentality and everything else, there is a possibility it will happen eventually.
Although, there is also another possibility that a world war will be avoided.
I'd love to put all of the governments into one room and have them kill each other if that's what they want and leave everyone else out of it.
Of course the general population is even more idiotic for allowing their governments into making those decisions.
Not everyone agrees to wage a war.
It's the governments that make these decisions, and who ends up in the firefight?
Civilians for the most part.
A third world war is hardly necessary, but given the people in power, their mentality and everything else, there is a possibility it will happen eventually.
Although, there is also another possibility that a world war will be avoided.
I'd love to put all of the governments into one room and have them kill each other if that's what they want and leave everyone else out of it.
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