Spoilers World Enough and Time (Grade & Discussion Thread)

[jaime]

Another way to phrase that would be that he got crazier the closer he got to 'End of Time', yes?

Honestly though, I have a very patchy knowledge of classic who so I'm not all that familiar with the Master's pre-McGann appearances. I think the only one I've even seen was Logopolis and I could barely follow what was going on. That said, my impression is that he's always been a megalomaniac of some type or another.

He's basically Voldemort, right down to killing off relatives and finding ways to continue his own existence that involve the use of his people's historical artefacts. XD
I personally think Ainleys portrayal is underrated, especially considering how the in universe explanation for him went....

 

[The Wormhole]

The producer's reuse of the "Day of the Doctor" image to promote this final two-parter is no coincidence or simple cost-saving exercise. It is part of the point. In "Day of the Doctor", the current Doctor faced his own dark past, the version of him who did terrible things, and grew to accept him. Now, the Master, on the verge of becoming good, is faced with her own dark past, a version of him who did terrible things. Will the Master sink again to the evil acts he once did (such as destroying Gallifrey), or will she try to bring the old him up to her level?

IMO, you're whole post is seeing things that aren't really there, but this particular point I'm definitely calling out, as those posters aren't created or supervised by Moffat or anyone who knows anything about the storyline's development or any themes that are being explored in the episodes, seasons or anything like that. In a lot of casess, these things aren't even handled by anyone in-studio, but a separate outside studio. Whoever thought this up, literally did approach it as "okay, two Masters teaming up, let's do a riff on the Day of the Doctor posters." The only point Moffat was involved with was looking at the final product and giving it his approval.

 

[matthunter]

So, did the Mondasians have sufficient FTL capability to send a team off-planet and acquire the colony ship to evacuate the rest of the population? And if they could do that, why not ask for help in restoring Mondas from other races? Again, I think the whole colony ship thing was a trap set by the Master - probably showed up at Mondas with it telling them it would be their salvation, but they'd want to scout possible worlds to evac to and thus send out a small crew first...

Incidentally, if the Master has spent about a thousand years in the bottom of the ship (and didn't just appear one day and hijack the situation), that would even out any disparity in relative age between himself and Twelve if Gallifrey really was "frozen"... 1000 years for him, about 1000 years for the Doctor defending Christmas.

 

[jaime]

IMO, you're whole post is seeing things that aren't really there, but this particular point I'm definitely calling out, as those posters aren't created or supervised by Moffat or anyone who knows anything about the storyline's development or any themes that are being explored in the episodes, seasons or anything like that. In a lot of casess, these things aren't even handled by anyone in-studio, but a separate outside studio. Whoever thought this up, literally did approach it as "okay, two Masters teaming up, let's do a riff on the Day of the Doctor posters." The only point Moffat was involved with was looking at the final product and giving it his approval.

There is one thing to think about there....the Day of The Doctor version had an hidden image of the eighth doctor in.

 

[Guy Gardener]

So, did the Mondasians have sufficient FTL capability to send a team off-planet and acquire the colony ship to evacuate the rest of the population? And if they could do that, why not ask for help in restoring Mondas from other races? Again, I think the whole colony ship thing was a trap set by the Master - probably showed up at Mondas with it telling them it would be their salvation, but they'd want to scout possible worlds to evac to and thus send out a small crew first...

Incidentally, if the Master has spent about a thousand years in the bottom of the ship (and didn't just appear one day and hijack the situation), that would even out any disparity in relative age between himself and Twelve if Gallifrey really was "frozen"... 1000 years for him, about 1000 years for the Doctor defending Christmas.

NEW THEORY (that Everyone and their dog has had)

It was the Silurians who threw Mondas out of the solar system!

Missy is older than Sim, and she is crossing her own timeline, so the relative ages of Sim (who might be a thousand years younger than Missy) and 12 do not matter.... Besides I only think they stay temperous with other versions of themselves (far the ### away) and Galifrey, or where/when Galifrey should be if it hadn't wandered off.

 

[jaime]

NEW THEORY (that Everyone and their dog has had)

It was the Silurians who threw Mondas out of the solar system!

Missy is older than Sim, and she is crossing her own timeline, so the relative ages of the two do not matter.... Besides I only think they stay atemperous with other versions of themselves (far the ### away) and Galifrey, or where/when Galifrey should be if it hadn't wandered off.

Maybe the Silurian Colony ship from Dinosaurs on a Spaceship dates to the same planetary system evacuation...which leads to Mondas going AWOL. And the time differential between Missy and Master variant, means we can't even use Simms appearance as a sure sign of his incarnations relative age. He may snap back to Eminem mode as soon as the adventure ends. This also means the John Hurt War Doctor may have been less lined in the face too, but who knows.

 

[The Wormhole]

There is one thing to think about there....the Day of The Doctor version had an hidden image of the eighth doctor in.

It did? First I've heard, and a Google search isn't turning up anything.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

A definite step up. Strong.

My biggest complaint is that the Cybermen seem to know full well what's above them in the ship. They can sense a human even on the top deck, and there's even live video feed. So, the idea that there is some vague danger that isn't understood that requires all the upgrading is more than a bit WTF, at least at this point.

 

[Guy Gardener]

(I assume) The Master controls the Hospital. What he told the hospital, and what he told Bill were probably very different narratives. Meanwhile it took a few months for that beam to penetrate from Bill from breast bone to shoulder blades. Downstairs all had plenty of time to get their shit together.

Oh!

Mondas is a Silurian Colony ship.

The Humans on the surface, multiplying, were left there as food, for when the woke up in a couple decades.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Mondas is a Silurian Colony ship.

The Humans on the surface, multiplying, were left there as food, for when the woke up in a couple decades.

Ah. So, the Silurians are awake now? Some of the life signs on the life sign indicator are Silurians, then?

Still, how is it that the Cybermen can sense a human on the top deck but not know about the Silurians?!?

 

[jaime]

It did? First I've heard, and a Google search isn't turning up anything.

I think I even tweeted or something a version I had personally drawn around the image hidden in the flames. Will try and hunt it down..but it's there...the promo image of McGann holding up the pocket watch is hidden in the flames.

 

[jaime]

A definite step up. Strong.

My biggest complaint is that the Cybermen seem to know full well what's above them in the ship. They can sense a human even on the top deck, and there's even live video feed. So, the idea that there is some vague danger that isn't understood that requires all the upgrading is more than a bit WTF, at least at this point.

The vague danger is probably a lie....or the more advanced cybermen we see next week. Most likely a lie though....they made it to the bridge to nab bill in the first place.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Ah. So, the Silurians are awake now? Some of the life signs on the life sign indicator are Silurians, then?

Still, how is it that the Cybermen can sense a human on the top deck but not know about the Silurians?!?

Mondas is the tenth planet from the episode The Tenth Planet (set in the year 1986). Earth's twin who's orbit shifted and now it takes them thousands of years to go around the sun. Which would mean that these Cyberman have to go back in time and colonise Mondas, or like in TOS Patterns of Force, this is CULTURAL APPROPRIATION, and not a genesis at all.

The colony ship, from this episode, from hundreds of years in the future, (that may have nothing to do with the sun ####ing up in the 30th century, burning the Earth) was built by regular humans and crashed into a black hole, or the Master threw it at them.

(From earlier)

Pick one...

1. The Mondasians never found the Silurian crypts 10 miles down.

2. The Mondasians found the Silurian crypts, and used the technology to accelerate their development.... Which is where the Cybermen got their idea for their tombs, seen in Tomb of the Cyberman, which was a story about a different genus of Cybermen, than the Mondasian Cybermen, but lets pretend that we can connect the dots.

 

[Marc]

He's basically Voldemort, right down to killing off relatives and finding ways to continue his own existence that involve the use of his people's historical artefacts. XD
I personally think Ainleys portrayal is underrated, especially considering how the in universe explanation for him went....

Ainley's performance as the master was hamstrung because you had an actor who wanted him dark and menacing vs those behind the scenes who wanted a lighter, campier Master.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Make Mine Campier.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Re: Drums and the Master... yeah, I think the Master had a slow but steady increase of the drums as he went on with his life up until End of Time, where the drumming got to be unbearable. Maybe he didn't hear that sound in the stories we saw and with the retroactive addition of it in NuWho, he might've been even more insane in those past stories. We'll never know.

What I do know, is that I wish they address this in some way. How Simm's Master coped with not hearing that sound anymore and how he remained the Master we saw him be after that.

 

[jaime]

Re: Drums and the Master... yeah, I think the Master had a slow but steady increase of the drums as he went on with his life up until End of Time, where the drumming got to be unbearable. Maybe he didn't hear that sound in the stories we saw and with the retroactive addition of it in NuWho, he might've been even more insane in those past stories. We'll never know.

What I do know, is that I wish they address this in some way. How Simm's Master coped with not hearing that sound anymore and how he remained the Master we saw him be after that.

He seems to have coped by trying to kill Rassilon and then reverted to hanging around in bad disguises up to villainy and trying to rule the world again rather than obsessing over gallifrey.

 

[jaime]

Make Mine Campier.

They did..you got Simms and then Gomez. If it gets camper than dancing to the scissor sisters, obsessing over the fat content in your food, bleaching your hair before turning into a woman who dresses like Mary Poppins, who dabs, then I don't want to see that nightmare. And I used to work in Soho.

Edit: I misses the Roberts Master...who dresses for the occasion.

 

[jaime]

It did? First I've heard, and a Google search isn't turning up anything.

https://twitter.com/jcomm9526/status/387620592385806336

 

[The Nth Doctor]

https://twitter.com/jcomm9526/status/387620592385806336

I'm sorry...there's only one appropriate response to that: