Good points.
Spoilers World Enough and Time (Grade & Discussion Thread)
- Thread starter TommyR01D
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Ok, so question... Did the Mondasians commission the colony ship from a galactic community, or are the blue guys somehow linked to humanity? He figured out that non-humans were exempt from conversion so perhaps the ship had other non-human crew (but what happened to them?) but how come he was onboard if the ship was Mondasian?
Or are the blue chaps genetically altered humans or artificial lifeforms, different enough that the Cybes don't want them? He was the janitor, so possibly a created "menial" class?
Edit: he could be a pawn of the Master, since converting Bill seems to have been his plan all along, and she only needed "repairs" since he shot her.
Or are the blue chaps genetically altered humans or artificial lifeforms, different enough that the Cybes don't want them? He was the janitor, so possibly a created "menial" class?
Edit: he could be a pawn of the Master, since converting Bill seems to have been his plan all along, and she only needed "repairs" since he shot her.
I have been avoiding the behind-the-scenes stuff and next time trailers and pretty much forgot about Simm and the Master and all that. I bought the disguise and everything (maybe it helps that Simm doesn't do anything for me one way or the other). Not sure what to make of it all on first viewing, frankly found myself bored with Bill's predicament which may also explain why I was slow on the uptake with this one. Not entirely sure why, I just found myself less affected and engaged than I wanted. I would've been happier just having a crazy adventure with "Doctor Who". I don't think it was a bad episode per se but I guess it just wasn't what I wanted at the moment.
I suspect that's the case for some long time viewers of the show.
Well, just know that Mondas is Earth's twin planet.
So is the blue guy the same species as Dorian and the guy from The End of the World? Will they ever get a name?
It's giving Moffatt too much credit, seeing as he wanted to leave years ago, but in a post hoc way, I wonder if Missy's scheme in series eight is related to this. I'm sure someone will come along and link them.
It's giving Moffatt too much credit, seeing as he wanted to leave years ago, but in a post hoc way, I wonder if Missy's scheme in series eight is related to this. I'm sure someone will come along and link them.
Crespallions are blue, Dorium and our new friend could be of that species.
It seems like they are using some FX technique to do these blue guys now as their teeth and even the whites of their eyes are blue.
Okay, I gotta ask this. A big deal has been made about the return of the Mondas Cybermen, and don't get me wrong, I love when a show like Doctor Who mines its history for new stories, and I get the Cybus Cybermen, but haven't we been getting THIS UNIVERSES' Cybermen for a while now? The "Iron Man" Cybermen are this universe's Cybermen, not the "Pete's World" Cybers, so, wouldn't that make them Mondasian Cybermen? I don't understand the disconnect. Is it just that these Cybermen are converted Mondasian Humans and not Humans from another world?
The Mondassian Cybermen are still slightly human and retain things like names and are all destroyed in 1986 when Mondas blows up. All other Cybermen are descended from ones created on Telos who are fully converted.
Thanks for clearing it up for me, StCoop. I have some watching to do.
Doc... Tor!
My God... They nailed even the voice! Briggs did a superb job.
I always pictured the aesthetic progression of the first Mondasian Cybermen like that. The voice panel was something I did not see coming, though... A very nice touch! It's a nice precedent to the Shatner thing the Original Mondasian Cybermen do when they speak.
This is how you should retcon stuff. Amazing episode, the best of the Series so far...
(I must be very slow because I honestly didn't realize that Mr. Razor was the Master)
Yep. Folks have been talking about this for some time now. How the 60s Mondasian Cybermen were so god-damn creepy and how they would fit in nicely on NuWho. Horror Stories are a strong characteristic of the New Series, after all... And this Episode definitely proves that, yes, those cloth faced bastards work very well even today.
I hope this encourages some Lite Design for future Cybermen in DW. They don't need to be giant clunking robots in order to be creepy.
My God... They nailed even the voice! Briggs did a superb job.
I always pictured the aesthetic progression of the first Mondasian Cybermen like that. The voice panel was something I did not see coming, though... A very nice touch! It's a nice precedent to the Shatner thing the Original Mondasian Cybermen do when they speak.
This is how you should retcon stuff. Amazing episode, the best of the Series so far...
(I must be very slow because I honestly didn't realize that Mr. Razor was the Master)
Yep. Folks have been talking about this for some time now. How the 60s Mondasian Cybermen were so god-damn creepy and how they would fit in nicely on NuWho. Horror Stories are a strong characteristic of the New Series, after all... And this Episode definitely proves that, yes, those cloth faced bastards work very well even today.
I hope this encourages some Lite Design for future Cybermen in DW. They don't need to be giant clunking robots in order to be creepy.
Regarding the pre-credits scene, I wonder if the " bio-lock" on the TARDIS can only be opened by someone whose DNA closely matches Twelve's in particular. If so then we have a pretty good explanation for the featured character's distress at the onset of the regeneration process.
When I was a kid I was shit-scared of the Cybermen, because I understood them to have once been ordinary people, and they were still people but dehumanised by what they had become. The thought that could happen to anyone gave me the utter creeps. So the Cybus style ones were not that scary, because less likely.
This ep dragged a lot in the middle for me, waiting for the Doctor to figure it out and descend to the other end of the ship, but the last third rocked along pretty well. Bill's conversion, given my abhorrence as a child, was heartbreaking for me, so I hope the Doctor can get her out of it, but I don't know.
Didn't recognise Simm 'til he took the mask off, as I wasn't looking for it, good reveal. How will these two go working together? This could be baaaad...
And the Master has pulled this shit before. "The sky is full of diamonds!"
Did anyone notice the Venusian aikido?
This has definitely been a better season.
This ep dragged a lot in the middle for me, waiting for the Doctor to figure it out and descend to the other end of the ship, but the last third rocked along pretty well. Bill's conversion, given my abhorrence as a child, was heartbreaking for me, so I hope the Doctor can get her out of it, but I don't know.
Didn't recognise Simm 'til he took the mask off, as I wasn't looking for it, good reveal. How will these two go working together? This could be baaaad...
And the Master has pulled this shit before. "The sky is full of diamonds!"
Did anyone notice the Venusian aikido?
This has definitely been a better season.
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The first 55 minutes of that episode was boring as hell. The Final 5 minutes was great but man I almost fell asleep and missed it.
I was trying to pinpoint who Razer reminded me of and yeah Zathras is a great comparison.
I was trying to pinpoint who Razer reminded me of and yeah Zathras is a great comparison.
This was a really good episode, and for once I actually found something in this show creepy, that is the hospital. Actually, that whole Mondasian world that was created was very atmospheric and moody, with a sort of depressed feel to it. Really well done.
It was cool to have the Master doing his disguises again, although I instantly recognized John Simm anyway. I'm actually disappointed they made it public he'd be in this episode rather than playing with a James Stoker style alias in the promotional material. Hey, we're doing old school Master stuff, might as well go all the way, right? I really hope part 2 explains how he survived TEOT and somehow cured a body that was barely holding together without regenerating, and has kept this form for what is implied to be several years. And is it me, or did the Simm Master's disguise remind anyone else of a Klingon?
The flashback scene showing the Doctor talking about his friendship with the Master to Bill at the university was also really well done. Especially with the new variation of This is Gallifrey that played through the scene.
I'm very pleasantly surprised to see the one Moffat trope I have loathed throughout his run so wonderfully deconstructed: the Moffat Monologues! When the Doctor is trying to talk Blue Man out of the gun, he begins what sounds like a very lengthy and Moffat-esque monologue, and Blue Man instantly fires and kills Bill. Has Moffat finally realized how awful those monologues were, perhaps seeing even more excruciating monologues on Class has finally convinced him enough is quite enough.
Finally, I worry they might be trying too hard with their Tenth Planet homages. As great as it is to see the Mondasian Cybermen, and I really dig the whole thing about they're always screaming to explain why their mouths moves the way they do, the opening scene with the TARDIS in the snowy wasteland overdid things a little by framing the scenes almost exactly the same as the exterior shots of the TARDIS just before Hartnell's regeneration scene. That's pushing a homage a bit too far, almost going in territory STID went with copying a certain scene from TWOK.
It was cool to have the Master doing his disguises again, although I instantly recognized John Simm anyway. I'm actually disappointed they made it public he'd be in this episode rather than playing with a James Stoker style alias in the promotional material. Hey, we're doing old school Master stuff, might as well go all the way, right? I really hope part 2 explains how he survived TEOT and somehow cured a body that was barely holding together without regenerating, and has kept this form for what is implied to be several years. And is it me, or did the Simm Master's disguise remind anyone else of a Klingon?
The flashback scene showing the Doctor talking about his friendship with the Master to Bill at the university was also really well done. Especially with the new variation of This is Gallifrey that played through the scene.
I'm very pleasantly surprised to see the one Moffat trope I have loathed throughout his run so wonderfully deconstructed: the Moffat Monologues! When the Doctor is trying to talk Blue Man out of the gun, he begins what sounds like a very lengthy and Moffat-esque monologue, and Blue Man instantly fires and kills Bill. Has Moffat finally realized how awful those monologues were, perhaps seeing even more excruciating monologues on Class has finally convinced him enough is quite enough.
Finally, I worry they might be trying too hard with their Tenth Planet homages. As great as it is to see the Mondasian Cybermen, and I really dig the whole thing about they're always screaming to explain why their mouths moves the way they do, the opening scene with the TARDIS in the snowy wasteland overdid things a little by framing the scenes almost exactly the same as the exterior shots of the TARDIS just before Hartnell's regeneration scene. That's pushing a homage a bit too far, almost going in territory STID went with copying a certain scene from TWOK.
Meh, that boat already sailed in November 2015 when the twist ending cliffhanger of Heaven Sent (the Doctor was on Gallifrey, the Time Lords were the ones after the Confession Dial) was released officially through the BBC several weeks in advance. Whatever, some people are way too protective of secrets these days, such as again, STID which sat on the identity of Cumberbatch's character way too long and went to embarrassing lengths to keep it a secret, that I find someone who'll officially give away spoilers quite refreshing.
It wasn't just you. I thought he was a really odd character, but I didn't "hear" Simm until just before the reveal.
Wouldn't matter. Three, Four, Seven and Eight all regenerated outside the TARDIS, their successors strolled right in. And Sexy wouldn't reject the Doctor no matter what face he wore.
I've gotta wonder, though, at Missy seemingly not remembering any of this happening when she was Simm. This is clearly a post 'The End of Time' Simm, so presumably not long until he regenerates into Missy (unless Chibnall's planning to keep him as his Master, and why wouldn't he). Or is she playing him (and us) the way he was playing Bill?
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