Near the end of the story, the Eleventh Doctor tells the Time Lord General that all his past selves have been working on the calculations necessary to save Gallifrey for centuries, so he is now able to put the plan into operation. But how could he have remembered this information if, once the adventure is over, all his past selves forget they experienced this, as supported by dialogue in the episode itself? Remember, it was stated that after they left, the memories of the War and Tenth Doctors would fade, so logically, the memories of the earlier Doctors would also disappear/be locked.
Working on the calculations for hundreds of years (SPOILERS)
- Thread starter Noddy
- Start date
But the TARDIS would still continue doing the claculations all that time until the moment came and even beyond because Capaldi was there, too.
Yeah that's how I took it. Just like the Sonic Screwdriver software, the War Doctor had his Tardis start doing calculations for it and it was finished with Smith's Tardis.
The Moment + Bad Wolf seems to be able to get around such pesky things.
And perhaps at that time the Doctor didn't want to believe that there was another way so he didn't have to live with the idea that not only did he destroy his planet but that he made a mistake in doing so.
And perhaps at that time the Doctor didn't want to believe that there was another way so he didn't have to live with the idea that not only did he destroy his planet but that he made a mistake in doing so.
I'd wager he would be ashamed to go back and meet his previous selves, as he was not a Doctor, but someone who pretty much went against the code of the Doctor. Of course, the special proved he was wrong to think so, but he was determined to go through with it anyway.
Was wondering; is it implied that all the calculations of the 'escaping from the tower of London' bit was done in the Tardis and not on the Sonic Screwdriver?
Cos - at the very least - Prisoner Zero destroyed 10's screwdriver in The Eleventh Hour.
Cos - at the very least - Prisoner Zero destroyed 10's screwdriver in The Eleventh Hour.
Remember also that until this episode, he was convinced that the War was time locked and that no matter what he did, he would never be able to break into it (excusing Rassilon's plan to break OUT of it, which could be a whole other ball of timey-wimey stuff). Likewise, at least some of him was emotionally convinced that the Time Lords had become just as bad as the Daleks and that saving them would not be doing the universe a favor.
It's the events of this episode that showed the Doctor that a) there was a way back into the war after all, and b) he's perfectly fine saving billions of Gallifreyan children at least. Maybe he'd even figured that having defeated Rassilon once, he could stand to have his people back in the universe again. So, echoing the sonic screwdriver trick, he goes back to the very beginning, meets his first self and seeds the programming he needs into the TARDIS to have the solution ready for when he goes to save Gallifrey. By some point in Capaldi's time, it's complete... Or perhaps he even seeded parts of it in every TARDIS to be effectively thirteen computers working in parallel (or more, since there were at least two distinct points in the Seventh Doctor's timeline represented), thus explaining the need for ALL of them to be there.
They all transmit the end calculations to the three TARDISes in the lower atmosphere, and poof! Gallifrey Falls No More. Everyone goes back to their places in time and space, promptly forgets about the whole thing, and leaves Eleven to proceed apace in getting his old stomping grounds out of hiding. Of course the TARDIS would remember, but who's she to tell anyone?
Makes sense to me.
Mark
It's the events of this episode that showed the Doctor that a) there was a way back into the war after all, and b) he's perfectly fine saving billions of Gallifreyan children at least. Maybe he'd even figured that having defeated Rassilon once, he could stand to have his people back in the universe again. So, echoing the sonic screwdriver trick, he goes back to the very beginning, meets his first self and seeds the programming he needs into the TARDIS to have the solution ready for when he goes to save Gallifrey. By some point in Capaldi's time, it's complete... Or perhaps he even seeded parts of it in every TARDIS to be effectively thirteen computers working in parallel (or more, since there were at least two distinct points in the Seventh Doctor's timeline represented), thus explaining the need for ALL of them to be there.
They all transmit the end calculations to the three TARDISes in the lower atmosphere, and poof! Gallifrey Falls No More. Everyone goes back to their places in time and space, promptly forgets about the whole thing, and leaves Eleven to proceed apace in getting his old stomping grounds out of hiding. Of course the TARDIS would remember, but who's she to tell anyone?
Makes sense to me.
Mark
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And to Candlelight - the sonic was destroyed in "Smith and Jones" as well, and he even references having a new one (of the same design) to break in by the end of that episode. I'm guessing that by the Time War his screwdriver was being networked to the TARDIS, so getting / building / programming a new one would be easier. Earlier incarnations tended not to use the screwdriver for such magical purposes, so it not being networked to the TARDIS would not be necessary for the purposes of the trick seen here, or in general.
Mark
Mark
He said it was in the software, so the Sonic networking with the Tardis and backing itself up makes sense and is very 2013 where we live in a world of Wifi where our phones and other technology back their content up.
The Tardis was shown to provide 11 with his new screwdriver in the Eleventh Hour so it could be assume it did the same with 10's replacement.
The Tardis was shown to provide 11 with his new screwdriver in the Eleventh Hour so it could be assume it did the same with 10's replacement.
And the only reason those events were timelocked in the first place was because of the Doctor's original decision to use the Moment. If he never uses the Moment, this stops being a problem.
The biggest contradiction, honestly, is what happens with Gallifrey and The Master in "The End of Time."
The best thing about Doctor Who, though, is that often enough, "wibbly wobbly timey whimey" is all the explanation you need to be able to ignore these plot holes.
Actually, I finished watching End of Time yesterday, and as Ten mentions that he married Elizabeth the First, a thought occured (one that this very forum actually gave birth to): What if Ten, for whatever reason, didn't forget the events of Day of the Doctor?
If he doesn't, then Eleven's enthusiasm in finding Gallifrey at the end of Day of the Doctor is directly juxtaposed by Ten's willingness to keep the Time Lords locked away in the instant of time. Sure, it all likely happened at the same time (Gallifrey having JUST returned when all 13 Doctors ended up saving it), but maybe Ten didn't want to be bothered with them yet. He also says that he actively wants them hidden away... Maybe that feeling has changed by now for Eleven? Maybe the Doctor feels that, all he has to do now is just find a way to immediately immobilize Rassilon before doing any harm once he'd have found and freed Gallifrey?
What do you all think?
It's definitely possible. The Doctor certainly is a clever boy.
That does make me wonder something. Where in Tennant's timeline does "Day of the Doctor" take place? Given his lack of companions, I assumed he was in the middle of his farewell tour, post-Donna/pre-End of Time.
That does make me wonder something. Where in Tennant's timeline does "Day of the Doctor" take place? Given his lack of companions, I assumed he was in the middle of his farewell tour, post-Donna/pre-End of Time.
Between Waters of Mars and End of Time I figure.
The events of "The End of Time" relating to Gallifrey should take place between the first time we see the War council in "The Day of the Doctor" and the last time when all the Doctors save Gallifrey.
When the High Council comes up with the plan to break through the timelock it is mentioned that the Doctor has the Moment and is about to use it. So this scene must take place after the generals have noticed that the Moment has been taken from the Omega Archive. Since Gallifrey vanishes from our universe when all the Doctors show up the High Council breaking through the timelock must happen before that.
Quite a busy day on Gallifrey.
Ten can't remember the events of "The Day of the Doctor" and his dialogue with the Master where he tells them he deliberately destroyed the Timelords because of what they had become doesn't make sense if he remembered that he actually saved them.
When the High Council comes up with the plan to break through the timelock it is mentioned that the Doctor has the Moment and is about to use it. So this scene must take place after the generals have noticed that the Moment has been taken from the Omega Archive. Since Gallifrey vanishes from our universe when all the Doctors show up the High Council breaking through the timelock must happen before that.
Quite a busy day on Gallifrey.
Ten can't remember the events of "The Day of the Doctor" and his dialogue with the Master where he tells them he deliberately destroyed the Timelords because of what they had become doesn't make sense if he remembered that he actually saved them.
