Worf's paralysis in Ethics

[ConRefit79]

In the episode Ethics, Worf is paralyzed. We learn that little is known about Klingon treatments for this condition because Klingons allow them to die. Furthermore we learn that Klingon bodies have a great deal of redundancy. Worf chooses a risky surgery over suicide. He dies on the table. But later comes back on his own thanks to all the redundant systems. Since Klingons have so much redundancy and they typically kill themselves shortly after becoming paralyzed, I wonder if the spinal cord replacement was necessary at all.

 

[tharpdevenport]

And I'd like to point all he Klingons who died easily and never came back from redundant organs.

 

[Sophie74656]

Having redundant organs would have nothing to do with the spinal cord regenerating itself.

I do enjoy this episode but have some mixed feelings about this. Obviously Worf can't die as a main character, but...if it is an accepted and common practice of his people who is Crusher or anyone to prevent it? They presented him with alternatives, but if he decided to follow a practice of his culture he should have been allowed to

 

[Herbert]

I do enjoy this episode but have some mixed feelings about this. Obviously Worf can't die as a main character, but...if it is an accepted and common practice of his people who is Crusher or anyone to prevent it? They presented him with alternatives, but if he decided to follow a practice of his culture he should have been allowed to

Agreed, but this is yet another case of the story trumping what makes sense. Just like Riker repeatedly refusing promotions to captain.

 

[Leviathan]

So...who'd win in a Redundant Organ Fight: Worf or Dr. Zoidberg?

 

[Sophie74656]

So...who'd win in a Redundant Organ Fight: Worf or Dr. Zoidberg?

Deviled egg.....the same deviled egg

 

[Leviathan]

Deviled egg.....the same deviled egg

"The president is choking on my gas bladder....what an honor."

 

[Mojochi]

Having redundant organs would have nothing to do with the spinal cord regenerating itself.

I do enjoy this episode but have some mixed feelings about this. Obviously Worf can't die as a main character, but...if it is an accepted and common practice of his people who is Crusher or anyone to prevent it? They presented him with alternatives, but if he decided to follow a practice of his culture he should have been allowed to

No one was telling him he couldn't choose to die. They presented him with reasons why he shouldn't, (like his quarter-human son) & refused to support or take part in doing so

At the risk of further exhausting myself in a topic that is very similar to one I've been having, & though the point has seemingly been blurred in recent times, it's actually very simple.

Absolutely no one should be required or expected to respect, condone, encourage, support, contribute to or even tolerate someone else's cultural convictions, when they are in conflict with their own, & good on Crusher, Riker & Troi for illustrating that

I have every right to think someone else's cultural practices are wrong, (& they mine) and even act on preventing them if I think sufficient harm is being done. That's how you end things like foot binding & child brides

And ironically, I actually DO support Worf's choice to die whenever he wants, but clearly they do not, & there's nothing wrong with letting that be known, & certainly not with refusing to be a party to it

 

[Samuel]

I like the part where Picard argues with Crusher when she is advocating strongly for the far less dangerous treatment that will restore "most" of his lost physical abilities. IIRC, Picard looks at her and basically says "He can't make that journey"

 

[JirinPanthosa]

They were going to allow him to do it, just refused to participate.

 

[Mojochi]

As to the organ redundancy thing. I never liked it. It was just another one of those convenient trappings that gets swept under the rug when it is no longer convenient, kind of like transporters being able to keep Scotty alive for 80 years until recue & medical aid can arrive. That would seem to be a handy thing to keep exploring

I like the part where Picard argues with Crusher when she is advocating strongly for the far less dangerous treatment that will restore "most" of his lost physical abilities. IIRC, Picard looks at her and basically says "He can't make that journey"

That is one of the more interesting scenes in the whole episode IMHO. It further illustrated to me just how much greater Picard's tolerance & even sympathy for the Klingon way of life is, than just about every other person on the show, which is one of a very few rare instances where he & I disagree (Like relegating whole intelligent species to go extinct, cuz directive reasons)

Ultimately I just don't get it. No one is telling Worf he has to live among people with such widely differing ideals. He chooses that each day he does so, swears allegiance to it as an officer even. I've never even seen the guy in a relationship with a fully Klingon woman. K'Ehlery clearly didn't adhere to Klingon values. She didn't raise their son with a respect for them. He engages in relations with Deanna & even has children in an alternate reality. Can we really expect he'd be staunch about Klingon values with them? How could he even?

How is it not appropriate to just tell this guy that he's made his bed, & getting accustomed to adhering to all these other... customs, that aren't like his homeworld, is just a fact of life for him? Heck, it's not even a homeworld he ever really lived on for any length of time. He was raised by humans & continues to live among them. He's estranged from it, for all intents & purposes, which always came off to me to be a lot of overcompensation, whenever he tried to play the Klingon card, like the real person he was trying to convince was himself

Maybe people ought to be telling him to table that chip on his shoulder & accept that he is the one choosing to live outside of the Klingon lifestyle & that means adapt or go back there. I can count numerous times that being exposed to non-Klingon ideals has served him quite well actually

 

[Samuel]

As to the organ redundancy thing. I never liked it. It was just another one of those convenient trappings that gets swept under the rug when it is no longer convenient, kind of like transporters being able to keep Scotty alive for 80 years until recue & medical aid can arrive. That would seem to be a handy thing to keep exploring

That is one of the more interesting scenes in the whole episode IMHO. It further illustrated to me just how much greater Picard's tolerance & even sympathy for the Klingon way of life is, than just about every other person on the show, which is one of a very few rare instances where he & I disagree (Like relegating whole intelligent species to go extinct, cuz directive reasons)

Ultimately I just don't get it. No one is telling Worf he has to live among people with such widely differing ideals. He chooses that each day he does so, swears allegiance to it as an officer even. I've never even seen the guy in a relationship with a fully Klingon woman. K'Ehlery clearly didn't adhere to Klingon values. She didn't raise their son with a respect for them. He engages in relations with Deanna & even has children in an alternate reality. Can we really expect he'd be staunch about Klingon values with them? How could he even?

How is it not appropriate to just tell this guy that he's made his bed, & getting accustomed to adhering to all these other... customs, that aren't like his homeworld, is just a fact of life for him? Heck, it's not even a homeworld he ever really lived on for any length of time. He was raised by humans & continues to live among them. He's estranged from it, for all intents & purposes, which always came off to me to be a lot of overcompensation, whenever he tried to play the Klingon card, like the real person he was trying to convince was himself

Maybe people ought to be telling him to table that chip on his shoulder & accept that he is the one choosing to live outside of the Klingon lifestyle & that means adapt or go back there. I can count numerous times that being exposed to non-Klingon ideals has served him quite well actually

Indeed. Didn't Picard give Worf a real ass chewing for killing Duras in "Reunion" even though as Worf pointed out he did it in "accordance with Klingon law and tradition".

I always thought it might be interesting if in a Star Trek series they had a Vulcan character or a Klingon character who actually seemed to embody those races.

Spock was half human who seemed always to be intent on being "more Vulcan than Vulcan" while Worf seemed to do the same to make up for being raised by human parents.

Sometimes Michael Dorn's Worf performance and even Leonard Nimoy's performance seemed to almost lapse into self parody.

 

[Mojochi]

Indeed. Didn't Picard give Worf a real ass chewing for killing Duras in "Reunion" even though as Worf pointed out he did it in "accordance with Klingon law and tradition".

Yes. I'll say no more

I always thought it might be interesting if in a Star Trek series they had a Vulcan character or a Klingon character who actually seemed to embody those races.

Honestly, I always felt Sarek fit that bill, even if he did mate with a Human

Spock was half human who seemed always to be intent on being "more Vulcan than Vulcan" while Worf seemed to do the same to make up for being raised by human parents.

Spock did seem to open up more in the movies though, which I very much liked. It really made the character much more approachable & wise. They had minor flirtations with it for Worf, but it was always like relative to plot convenience. "Let's get him in a relationship with someone else on the show.... Oh but in this episode we have to have him not able to see past Klingon stuff" Very inconsistent imo

 

[Qonundrum]

The "Ethics" story backed itself into a corner with its one-sidedness and had a find a way out that somehow proved Crusher 100% right and everyone else, even Klingons with their belief of suicide, 100% wrong. It all feels hollow, patronizing, and laughable. In real life, sometimes risks are necessary to prove medical advances work and sometimes they fail - simulations and tests only go so far and even when a treatment can work, it's not 100% for everyone taking it and at least for Worf's situation the chances of misdiagnoses were rare, if you want to make the whole of the issue even more grounded. The episode is just a prime example of season 5 becoming intellectually half-baked, lazy, and/or dishonest, which is why it's ultimately so disappointing - the story could have been so much more, even a 2-parter, to do their pet cause as much justice as the audience, but it doesn't address anything and resorts to mindless magic to save the day and very quickly and conveniently.

(And didn't rumor have it that this would have been a Crusher-vs-Pulaski episode?)

 

[Mojochi]

In real life, sometimes risks are necessary to prove medical advances work and sometimes they fail - simulations and tests only go so far and even when a treatment can work, it's not 100% for everyone taking it and at least for Worf's situation the chances of misdiagnoses were rare, if you want to make the whole of the issue even more grounded.

I can agree that it's hard to fully support Crusher on her call here, mostly because if a patient chooses to undergo experimental therapy by an equally qualified practitioner, that is their right to do so. At the end of the day, Crusher fights about Worf's life as if it was her own, & while noble at heart, that's not the case

If the notion of suicide had never been broached, she wouldn't have had any leg to stand on. It was only the fact that the other doctor was taking advantage of Worf's death wish, that I support Crusher's actions at all. It made the other doctor seem unethical, which presents an unacceptable amount of disregard for medical standards

(And didn't rumor have it that this would have been a Crusher-vs-Pulaski episode?)

I don't know anything concrete to support that, but it certainly played that way, especially when you think of Pulaski being the one who played loose with her own life in Unnatural Selection, & that in her short time on TNG, she also exhibited a much greater affinity for Klingon culture than the others too, so therefore might be more accommodating to Worf's wishes. I don't think it's a good fit for the character though.

I can also see why the actress might have turned it down. It takes those traits a little too far imho. I'd never see Pulaski jumping out ahead of proven science as much as that, to use a person's suicidal tendencies as an opportunity to rope them into shaky experimental treatment ground. Experimental medicine? Maybe. Unethically opportunistic? Not at all. To make that character Pulaski would've undercut her integrity imho, & over the years, I've actually come to think of Pulaski as the better doctor

 

[Timo]

But do we have any evidence that this not-Pulaski would actually have been "unethically opportunist"? Crusher sees it that way, but that's her. That Starfleet Medical turned down three previous requests by Russell for testing her procedure on humanoids just tells us that they're willing to entertain a fourth request.

And when Russell kills a patient with an experimental cure, the point contested is not the use of an experimental cure, as Crusher does that a lot herself, too. It's the skipping of an alternate cure that Crusher personally and professionally would have preferred. But we don't know how often Crusher skips, and we don't know whether her personal or professional option carries much weight. Clearly she doesn't have a procedural leg to stand on, or she would have quoted the regulation that requires a starship doctor not to skip.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mojochi]

But do we have any evidence that this not-Pulaski would actually have been "unethically opportunist"? Crusher sees it that way, but that's her. That Starfleet Medical turned down three previous requests by Russell for testing her procedure on humanoids just tells us that they're willing to entertain a fourth request.

And when Russell kills a patient with an experimental cure, the point contested is not the use of an experimental cure, as Crusher does that a lot herself, too. It's the skipping of an alternate cure that Crusher personally and professionally would have preferred. But we don't know how often Crusher skips, and we don't know whether her personal or professional option carries much weight. Clearly she doesn't have a procedural leg to stand on, or she would have quoted the regulation that requires a starship doctor not to skip.

Timo Saloniemi

I admit, a lot of the "Ethics" depends on the viewer thinking Crusher (Being the regular) is infallible, which I agree doesn't hold up