Worf and sexism

[Thomas Elliot]

I was watching "The Outcast" and the scene that stuck out to me was Worf being so sexist. He says that Troi's game of Poker is for females, because it's a weak game, or something along those lines, and Beverly and Troi are subtly mocking his attitude. In a later episode he's criticizing his fancy Starfleet diplomatic uniform for looking like a dress. I'd bet there's more examples of Worf being the stereotypical macho male sexist.

But it's kind of weird considering that early in TNG we see Klingon women serving along side men in the S2 episode where Riker is part of an exchange program. And previously in TUC, Gorkon's daughter seems to take up the leadership of the Klingon Empire.
Klingon society has always seemed to be portrayed as more male centric, but considering that Klingon women seemed to serve as equals in the military, it's weird that Worf has such a blatantly sexist 20th century attitude. I get him being portrayed as somewhat "old fashioned" in his own Klingon way, but damn, even calling a card game a weak woman's game. It's poker! Don't Klingons prefer arm wrestling with knives? Wouldn't any card game be considered weak? And why a woman's game? Why not say at least say it's a game for weaklings or something more along those lines.

And I could have sworn I saw Klingon elders wearing outfits that looked like dresses.

It felt a little forced.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I don’t think that’s sexist. Equal doesn’t mean identical.

 

[Jayson1]

He thinks human females are physcially weak. He also once didn't want Dr Crusher to beam down to Yar's planet because of the rape gangs he heard about from Yar. Unless they prove to him otherwise like with Yar who he respected. It's different with Klingon women. Or with Jadzia. Remember he joked more than once he wouldn't have sex with human woman because of his concerns for their safety. He is basically a conservative guy with some old views but he isn't so closed minded that his mind can't be changed. He also dated Troi for a short term.

Jason

 

[Thomas Elliot]

Yeah, I forgot about the Yar’s sister episode with Beverly. It definitely was because she was a woman but I wonder if it was also because she was a doctor and probably had no significant combat training. I can’t imagine Word showing the same concern for a regular female red shirt.

But it seems extra to negatively call a particular card game “a woman’s game” and weak. And the way that Troi and Crusher look at him was like a wink to the audience like, “see how dumb male sexist attitudes are.” It plays into the theme of the episode but it felt a bit forced.

Even though in hindsight it seems like the writers intended Worf to be bragging about his sex game, I thought he meant he was worried for their safety overall. Even stuff prior to sex was rough and violent. He knocked Q-Riker’s Klingon woman clear across the room as part of foreplay. He was holding Keyler’s hand to point it bled. And later we find out as a youngster he killed a fellow kid in soccer when they’re heads accidentally butted.

I assume with Troi he had to be extra delicate and careful, physically and emotionally.

 

[Mojochi]

Worf's idea of Klingon culture & behavior is... skewed. He ain't been a resident of that world in his entire life

 

[Thomas Elliot]

Worf's idea of Klingon culture & behavior is... skewed. He ain't been a resident of that world in his entire life

He’s definitely romanticized it but it’s weird that he’d ignore or be ignorant of all the dishonorable and political aspects of the culture, but make up or embellish the sexist ones. I suppose he could be applying his Earth upbringing, and maybe his own adoptive Russian father’s views on the sexes when interpreting Klingon culture. That actually sounds like an interesting angle to go with. Earth has its own romanticized history and myths. Going back to King Arthur, then you have people romanticizing the Kennedy Administration as “Camelot”, so Worf would being that influence to his own consumption of Klingon history and culture. Probably little Klingon kids believe in the romanticized honor culture, but by the time they become adults they realize its all politics and “honor” is more about not getting screwed by rival houses. He’s a true Klingon and yet he’s a poor Klingon if that makes any sense.
I kind of wish they’d have explored that concept more.

 

[at Quark's]

He’s definitely romanticized it but it’s weird that he’d ignore or be ignorant of all the dishonorable and political aspects of the culture, but make up or embellish the sexist ones. I suppose he could be applying his Earth upbringing, and maybe his own adoptive Russian father’s views on the sexes when interpreting Klingon culture. That actually sounds like an interesting angle to go with. Earth has its own romanticized history and myths. Going back to King Arthur, then you have people romanticizing the Kennedy Administration as “Camelot”, so Worf would being that influence to his own consumption of Klingon history and culture. Probably little Klingon kids believe in the romanticized honor culture, but by the time they become adults they realize its all politics and “honor” is more about not getting screwed by rival houses. He’s a true Klingon and yet he’s a poor Klingon if that makes any sense.
I kind of wish they’d have explored that concept more.

Worf might be a somewhat accurate portrait of a certain type of second generation immigrants that refuse to see the flaws in their parents' culture and idealise it, but don't apparently understand that actually living in it would be a much more down-to-earth experience. However, that on critical moments also show to be far more ingrained in their "new" culture in their choices than they themselves would care to openly admit with their mouth.

 

[USS Firefly]

I would look too much in It.
Like they say that Klingons are honorable, but they showed that they are actually the opposite

 

[Mage]

Worf's idea of Klingon culture & behavior is... skewed. He ain't been a resident of that world in his entire life

I think Worf's ideals are what Klingon culture was, and should be. Not what it became during TNG/DS9. Where Klingons lost their way. I think that's why he connected with Martok so well, who is in his heart much like Worf, but also more realistic.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Worf is trying to be "more Klingon than Klingons". He wasn't raised as one, so now that he's an adult he feels pressure to conform to Klingon cultural norms. So he has this rigid, idealistic, uncompromisiing view of how Klingons should act.

OTOH, people like Martok, Kurn, etc. who were born and raised in the life, can afford to be more casual about it, because they have nothing to prove.

For example: There's a TNG ep where Worf and Kurn are in a bar before a battle. They're drinking with Klingons on the other side (of the civil war) who they will soon be fighting against. Worf thinks it's offensive to drink with their enemies, but Kurn laughs it off, saying that it's a time to celebrate.

 

[Makarov]

I dont know how nice Klingon culture is meant to be, I mean what we saw in Discovery they were mean to the different looking Klingon guy, treated him terribly. It doesnt seem like they'd be nice to any group unless they prove themselves in fights. They may be worse than humans in this area

 

[Mojochi]

Worf is trying to be "more Klingon than Klingons". He wasn't raised as one, so now that he's an adult he feels pressure to conform to Klingon cultural norms. So he has this rigid, idealistic, uncompromisiing view of how Klingons should act.

OTOH, people like Martok, Kurn, etc. who were born and raised in the life, can afford to be more casual about it, because they have nothing to prove.

For example: There's a TNG ep where Worf and Kurn are in a bar before a battle. They're drinking with Klingons on the other side (of the civil war) who they will soon be fighting against. Worf thinks it's offensive to drink with their enemies, but Kurn laughs it off, saying that it's a time to celebrate.

Then of course there's the fact that he thinks Klingons don't or shouldn't laugh, which is a huge enough crock that he can't even say it without Guinan pointing out how dumb that sounds

 

[Kor]

There was a disconnect between TUC and TNG, as it built on the Klingon depictions from the previous movies instead of TNG. For instance, Azetbur became Chancellor, whereas in the earlier TNG episode "Redemption," Gowron stated matter-of-factly that women are not allowed to serve on (or lead) the High Council.

Kor

 

[Orphalesion]

There was a disconnect between TUC and TNG, as it built on the Klingon depictions from the previous movies instead of TNG. For instance, Azetbur became Chancellor, whereas in the earlier TNG episode "Redemption," Gowron stated matter-of-factly that women are not allowed to serve on (or lead) the High Council.

Kor

As I say, if you watch TUC and then the Klingon episodes in 90s trek you get the impression the impression that Klingon culture has kinda regressed, maybe even decayed into a more barbaric state.

 

[Tenacity]

He says that Troi's game of Poker is for females, because it's a weak game, or something along those lines

Worf and Deanna are friends, Worf was flipping her shit.

Like they say that Klingons are honorable, but they showed that they are actually the opposite

What you're seeing is Klingon honor, it's just different than yours.

Azetbur became Chancellor, whereas in the earlier TNG episode "Redemption," Gowron stated matter-of-factly that women are not allowed to serve on (or lead) the High Council.

Several decades apart, Gowron could have been speaking of the (then) current rules.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Gowron might be the sexist one here. Who knows, maybe he's the one who instituted the rule barring women from the council.

 

[Nyotarules]

Gowron stated matter-of-factly that women are not allowed to serve on (or lead) the High Council.

TOS Pike stated he could not get used to seeing a woman on the bridge, 23rd century man with 20th century attitude. In universe how many females joined Starfleet since its conception, where did he think they would be serving if they were posted to a starship? How does he think Number One got her promotion to be his XO?

 

[Orphalesion]

It would be interesting to know whether Azetbur's tenure had anything to do with women becoming banned from being chancellor. Maybe Kithomer was blamed on her? Maybe she held on to power for a long time and some elements in Klingon society didn't like that.
It reminds me of Imperial Russia banning women from inheriting the crown after Catherine the Great.

 

[Kor]

yeah, Gowron might be the sexist one here. Who knows, maybe he's the one who instituted the rule barring women from the council.

Yeah, especially since, just a little bit earlier in the series he himself was trying to bribe Keh'lyeahr (or however it's spelled) with a seat on the High Council.

Kor

 

[Tenacity]

How does he think Number One got her promotion to be his XO?

She's different.