Worf act like a hypocrite at times when it involves Klingon culture etc

[urrutiap]

ever since Next Generation to Deep Space and soon with Picard season 3, Worf flip flops when it comes to how people should act . Even with the Klingons of they should fight in battle etc.

He was a little overprotective when Alexander was with Martog's crew. Alexander while he was a member on Martog's ship i think, at the same time he was being treated as a joke which Alex didnt care anyway

Deep Space Nine, Worf changed in a big way, whether he was being forced to fight Jem HDar in odd fight to the death battles or butt kissing the real martog, he thought that he was acting more klingon than the other klingons or whatever.

then in Picard Season 3 teasers, you hear Worf arguing about how much he sacrificed yada yada so Worf is bringing back his First Contact attitude again to have another verbal dispute with Picard about somethjing that goes on in Picard Season 3

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Yes.

 

[Ragitsu]

Deep Dish Nine did strange things to Worf's attitude; then again, it also did strange things to Chief O'Brien's attitude.

 

[The Wormhole]

Martog?

 

[fireproof78]

Yes.

/thread

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

ever since Next Generation to Deep Space and soon with Picard season 3, Worf flip flops when it comes to how people should act . Even with the Klingons of they should fight in battle etc.

He was a little overprotective when Alexander was with Martog's crew. Alexander while he was a member on Martog's ship i think, at the same time he was being treated as a joke which Alex didnt care anyway

Deep Space Nine, Worf changed in a big way, whether he was being forced to fight Jem HDar in odd fight to the death battles or butt kissing the real martog, he thought that he was acting more klingon than the other klingons or whatever.

then in Picard Season 3 teasers, you hear Worf arguing about how much he sacrificed yada yada so Worf is bringing back his First Contact attitude again to have another verbal dispute with Picard about somethjing that goes on in Picard Season 3

Is it Worf acting like a hypocrite, or is it evidence of inconsistent and contradictory character "development" over the years?

 

[Finn]

ever since Next Generation to Deep Space and soon with Picard season 3, Worf flip flops when it comes to how people should act . Even with the Klingons of they should fight in battle etc.

He was a little overprotective when Alexander was with Martog's crew. Alexander while he was a member on Martog's ship i think, at the same time he was being treated as a joke which Alex didnt care anyway

Deep Space Nine, Worf changed in a big way, whether he was being forced to fight Jem HDar in odd fight to the death battles or butt kissing the real martog, he thought that he was acting more klingon than the other klingons or whatever.

then in Picard Season 3 teasers, you hear Worf arguing about how much he sacrificed yada yada so Worf is bringing back his First Contact attitude again to have another verbal dispute with Picard about somethjing that goes on in Picard Season 3

Worf knows very little about Klingons.

 

[Takeru]

Worf was at his worst during Birthright part 2, he sold his Disneyland version of klingon awesomeness to klingon/romulan hybrids who had no idea what they were getting into and made them live among people who would hate them for who they are. They were in for a very rude awakening and it's not impossible they were thought to be spies and executed.

And what did Worf do? He went back to live his life in starfleet which could not be further removed from the klingon lifestyle, sipped prune juice and played poker with his friends after which he chilled in his artsy design chair and dreamt of being the best Klingon who ever klingoned.

 

[somebuddyX]

A Klingon raised by humans acts inconsistently to his Klingon culture? Sure.
Does his attitude change based on all the horrible shit that happened to him over the years? Sure.
Is it 20 years since we last saw him with all his pals and who knows what's happened to him in the meantime? Sure.
Are people's perceptions on what characters should be like or where they are in life coloured by their own biases or at odds with what spinoff media suggsested? Sure. (I'm guilty of this)
Does a couple of clips in a trailer encapsulate the story of a multiple episodes? I don't think so.

 

[Oddish]

Worf was at his worst during Birthright part 2, he sold his Disneyland version of klingon awesomeness to klingon/romulan hybrids who had no idea what they were getting into and made them live among people who would hate them for who they are. They were in for a very rude awakening and it's not impossible they were thought to be spies and executed.

That whole episode was a dumpster fire... if the dumpster was laden to the brim with toxic medical waste. Worf the Klingon cultural guru? Puh-leeze!

The only redeeming aspects of that two-parter were Bashir's cameo and Data's dreaming.

 

[Farscape One]

Worf was at his worst during Birthright part 2, he sold his Disneyland version of klingon awesomeness to klingon/romulan hybrids who had no idea what they were getting into and made them live among people who would hate them for who they are. They were in for a very rude awakening and it's not impossible they were thought to be spies and executed.

And what did Worf do? He went back to live his life in starfleet which could not be further removed from the klingon lifestyle, sipped prune juice and played poker with his friends after which he chilled in his artsy design chair and dreamt of being the best Klingon who ever klingoned.

There was only one Klingon/Romulan hybrid, and she chose to stay on the planet.

I saw nothing wrong with Worf teaching them their own culture. And the ending, I thought, was a good one because you have a good sized group of young Klingons who have worked with and lived alongside Romulans in peace for their entire lives up to that point. Now that they will be living among other Klingons, they have a chance to spread the knowledge that Romulans are not all that bad. Yes, they will certainly encounter pushback, but one of the reasons why any group of people hate or don't tolerate another group of people is because they don't know anything about them or know anyone from that group. Knowledge builds bridges of understanding.

And besides... for all intents and purposes, it was a prison. You think it was right to keep those kids in a prison their whole lives?

I don't understand the hatred for "Birthright, Part II". It's sends a good, solid message.

 

[Takeru]

There was only one Klingon/Romulan hybrid, and she chose to stay on the planet.

Huh, looks like I completely misremembered that part. But that doesn't make Worf less of a hypocrite.

I saw nothing wrong with Worf teaching them their own culture.

He didn't really teach them about their own culture though, Worf only knows an idealized version of klingon culture that isn't real. Pretty much every time he interacts with klingons he ends up being disappointed or disillusioned and every time he declares "Klingons don't do X" the show proves him wrong.

And the ending, I thought, was a good one because you have a good sized group of young Klingons who have worked with and lived alongside Romulans in peace for their entire lives up to that point. Now that they will be living among other Klingons, they have a chance to spread the knowledge that Romulans are not all that bad. Yes, they will certainly encounter pushback, but one of the reasons why any group of people hate or don't tolerate another group of people is because they don't know anything about them or know anyone from that group. Knowledge builds bridges of understanding.

But how do they explain why romulans aren't all that bad without revealing the colony which would screw their parents and by extension themselves over?

And besides... for all intents and purposes, it was a prison. You think it was right to keep those kids in a prison their whole lives?

Not necessarily but why not take them to a federation colony? With how they were raised they'd probably be happier there then among klingons. Worf himself is portrayed as happier in starfleet than among klingons but still insists on the kids living with klingons but doesn't take his own advice, they go to live with klingons, he goes immediately back to living with humans, to a tolerant environment in which he can dream about klingons on his soft mattress instead of actually living among them and being confronted with reality. It's the hypocrisy that annoys me, Worf isn't forced to serve in starfleet or to live among humans, he wants to and he can pretend all day long that he went back to the Enterprise because of his "duties" but we know that isn't true, he went back because he prefers it to living with klingons.

I don't understand the hatred for "Birthright, Part II". It's sends a good, solid message.

"Don't force your kids to live in a prison even if it's a nice prison" is a solid message but Worf being a hypocrite kinda ruins it. He basically lies to the kids and makes them chose a life he himself rejects.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Worf isn't a hypocrite, as such. He never claimed to be raised among Klingons. But of course that's the problem...he feels that because of this, he has something to prove, and that causes him to overcompensate.

He's not doing this on purpose. He feels he has no other choice.

 

[Farscape One]

Huh, looks like I completely misremembered that part. But that doesn't make Worf less of a hypocrite.


He didn't really teach them about their own culture though, Worf only knows an idealized version of klingon culture that isn't real. Pretty much every time he interacts with klingons he ends up being disappointed or disillusioned and every time he declares "Klingons don't do X" the show proves him wrong.


But how do they explain why romulans aren't all that bad without revealing the colony which would screw their parents and by extension themselves over?


Not necessarily but why not take them to a federation colony? With how they were raised they'd probably be happier there then among klingons. Worf himself is portrayed as happier in starfleet than among klingons but still insists on the kids living with klingons but doesn't take his own advice, they go to live with klingons, he goes immediately back to living with humans, to a tolerant environment in which he can dream about klingons on his soft mattress instead of actually living among them and being confronted with reality. It's the hypocrisy that annoys me, Worf isn't forced to serve in starfleet or to live among humans, he wants to and he can pretend all day long that he went back to the Enterprise because of his "duties" but we know that isn't true, he went back because he prefers it to living with klingons.


"Don't force your kids to live in a prison even if it's a nice prison" is a solid message but Worf being a hypocrite kinda ruins it. He basically lies to the kids and makes them chose a life he himself rejects.

While some elements of Worf's teachibgs were an idealized version, how is it different than giving lessons in morality to kids? You teach them good things and values in the hopes they take those lessons to heart and spread those same good messages to others they encounter.

Those kids were taught Klingon beliefs that were stemmed with good ideals of their culture... if they did indeed take those lessons to heart, that means there's that many more Klingons taking those lessons to others and being an example to others, like Worf. It can help bring about a good change in Klingon society.

It's about teaching the next generation (pun intended) good values in the hopes of making a society better. Isn't that why we bother to teach children to begin with?

 

[Finn]

Really, Worf had no business teaching Klingon culture. The UFP probably had very little information on the Klingon Homeworld before the warrior caste took over, as Vulcans stayed close to home and probably limited their interactions with them. Enterprise suggested it happened decades prior to Enterprise.

Worf wouldn't have learned that much about Klingons from whatever the Rozhenkos found for him to read, all that.

 

[Farscape One]

There were also times when he visited the homeworld growing up, as has been mentioned multiple times. He could have gotten a lot of texts and books of Klingon legends and culture while there and brought it back with him.

 

[Finn]

He was on the homeworld as a small child so he wouldn't have been collecting texts. After Khitomer, it wasn't the homeworld. I think it was a colony they visited.

Based on Worf being lost while among them especially during Redemption and when he first served on Martok's ship during the war, I don't think he had enough information and experience...

I also don't buy that Worf really remembers the hunt that old Klingon mentioned in Birthright. I think it was a false/wishful thinking memory.

 

[Farscape One]

I distinctly remember Worf saying he begged his foster parents to let him visit the Klingon homeworld, and they did let him. Not entirely sure if it was on TNG or DS9, but I know he said that.

 

[Finn]

I distinctly remember Worf saying he begged his foster parents to let him visit the Klingon homeworld, and they did let him. Not entirely sure if it was on TNG or DS9, but I know he said that.

I looked it up. You are right, but Memory Alpha also suggested he was out of place even then. It cited several TNG and DS9 episodes but it didn't specify what exactly was said in each of those episode. I'll do rewatch one of these days but I'm not really up all of those commercials on Paramount Plus.

 

[Farscape One]

True, he was out of place. That doesn't mean he didn't grab every book on Klingon culture and mythology and legends while over there. In fact, I'd argue that because he was out of place, it gave him a bigger incentive to do this.