Wonder Woman animated DVD

[CaptainCanada]

Well, for a start, even Batman would not have murdered Maxwell Lord. How many times has Batman been in a position to finally kill the Joker knowing how many lives he would eventually save by doing so ?

She is a soldier, not a superhero. She's something akin to Jack Bauer. Is Bauer a hero ? No, he's a necessary evil and he is shown to hate himself for his actions.

Wolverine or the Punisher are also good comparisons. They kill when they deem that a person does not deserve to live. They have their own view of morality that doesn't fit with being a true hero.

No, she's a hero. More or a hero, in her own way, because she's willing to deal with complex moral questions with certainty.

Their entire history is based on misandry. It is clear that they blame all men for the actions of Heracles' and his men.

Well, first, even if that were true, how would that make them villains?

And anyway, it isn't true (they became disillusioned with their mission for a time, but later got back into it, and have had numerous men on the island since in the periods when it was a centre of learning).

And what exactly is Zeus rewarding them for ?

Loyal service to the gods, saving the world more than once.

Why not knock him out and take him somewhere where he is not a threat ?

Because Lord made it clear that he would always be a threat.

It's frankly a somewhat contrived scenario, but that's editorial mandates for you; Rucka, the man who wrote it, made it clear she did the right thing, even if it was controversial. Hacks like Johns used it against her; Simone recently had her clearly state she would do it again to save the world.

 

[Jeyl]

She did not kill Lord in a straight fight. Lord was restrained with her unbreakable lasso and she snapped his neck. He was already not a physical match for her anyway. Why not knock him out and take him somewhere where he is not a threat?

Because Lord said the only way to stop what he was doing to Superman and Batman was to kill him, and that was the truth because the lasso was on him. You think knocking him out would be enough to stop his mental powers?

 

[Mr Light]

Well speaking as someone almost completely unfamiliar with the WW comics, I thought it was good but not great. The whole fantasy monster thing, I dunno, it just feels a little silly in comparison to the rest of the DCU for me. I found it interesting that both WW and Steve had no compunctions about killing enemies. Too bad every time somebody gets run through with a sword there's no blood whatsoever on the blade Also I found it very bizarre they didn't explain the invisible jet; my interpretation from the movie was that they salvaged Steve's jet and painted it with super magical invisible paint... because Steve seemed to know how to fly it perfectly well and it seemed very similar to his original jet.

 

[Hermiod]

She did not kill Lord in a straight fight. Lord was restrained with her unbreakable lasso and she snapped his neck. He was already not a physical match for her anyway. Why not knock him out and take him somewhere where he is not a threat?

Because Lord said the only way to stop what he was doing to Superman and Batman was to kill him, and that was the truth because the lasso was on him. You think knocking him out would be enough to stop his mental powers?

The Lasso can only make someone tell what they believe to be the truth. It is not the be all and end all.

No, she's a hero. More or a hero, in her own way, because she's willing to deal with complex moral questions with certainty.

That's not heroism.

Well, first, even if that were true, how would that make them villains?

And anyway, it isn't true (they became disillusioned with their mission for a time, but later got back into it, and have had numerous men on the island since in the periods when it was a centre of learning).

And their mission was ?

I mean their post-Crisis creation says they were created from the bodies of women murdered by men. Their very creation was sexist.

Loyal service to the gods, saving the world more than once.

Murdering kids...

It's frankly a somewhat contrived scenario, but that's editorial mandates for you; Rucka, the man who wrote it, made it clear she did the right thing, even if it was controversial. Hacks like Johns used it against her; Simone recently had her clearly state she would do it again to save the world.

So would Jack Bauer.

 

[CaptainCanada]

The Lasso can only make someone tell what they believe to be the truth. It is not the be all and end all.

There's some reason not to believe Lord's word?

That's not heroism.

Why? I find it quite heroic for someone to be willing to actually deal with and take a stand on such an issue.

And their mission was ?

Be the gods' champions on earth and create an example of a better civilization.

I mean their post-Crisis creation says they were created from the bodies of women murdered by men. Their very creation was sexist.

How is that sexist?

Murdering kids...

As I said, a horrible story that makes no sense in the context of their history of behaviour and which has been furiously ignored. No different then any number of bad stories.

 

[Hermiod]

Why? I find it quite heroic for someone to be willing to actually deal with and take a stand on such an issue.

A hero does the right thing no matter what their personal feelings might be. Killing a someone is not the right thing.

Be the gods' champions on earth and create an example of a better civilization.

And a better civilisation means no men ?

How is that sexist?

What about the murdered men ? Who stands up for them ?

As I said, a horrible story that makes no sense in the context of their history of behaviour and which has been furiously ignored. No different then any number of bad stories.

There are a lot of stories in the various continuities I follow that I'd like to ignore but can't. Unless Final Crisis actually said it didn't happen then it still happened, like it or not.

 

[CaptainCanada]

A hero does the right thing no matter what their personal feelings might be. Killing a someone is not the right thing.

That's an absurd oversimplication (one I'm glad that comics generally don't buy into anymore).

And a better civilisation means no men ?

No, not necessarily.

What about the murdered men ? Who stands up for them ?

The Amazons weren't created to "stand up" for murdered women; they were souls that Gaea preserved, and so Athena and co. gave them a new life. Their job is to be an example to the whole world.

There are a lot of stories in the various continuities I follow that I'd like to ignore but can't. Unless Final Crisis actually said it didn't happen then it still happened, like it or not.

Serialized fiction like this basically requires the ability to ignore stories that misfire, as some invariably do; this is one of them (another would be the time Spider-Man backhanded his wife).

 

[Hermiod]

That's an absurd oversimplication (one I'm glad that comics generally don't buy into anymore).

A superhero movie that made $1bn at the box office last year seemed to like the idea.

The Amazons weren't created to "stand up" for murdered women; they were souls that Gaea preserved, and so Athena and co. gave them a new life. Their job is to be an example to the whole world.

And again, why no men ?

 

[Jeyl]

The Amazons weren't created to "stand up" for murdered women; they were souls that Gaea preserved, and so Athena and co. gave them a new life. Their job is to be an example to the whole world.

And again, why no men ?

Because they're not men? Like the same reason Wonder Woman is a woman and not a man.

 

[Hermiod]

^You're just digging a hole. Why not fathers ? Do you not see a problem here ?

 

[CaptainCanada]

That's an absurd oversimplication (one I'm glad that comics generally don't buy into anymore).

A superhero movie that made $1bn at the box office last year seemed to like the idea.

Batman not killing is a longstanding (though not original) part of his character (though the first movie kind of had it both ways with Ra's al Ghul)' heck, the first Burton movie, which disregarded that, made quite a lot of money.

Iron Man also made quite a lot of money, and he iced numerous bad guys without remorse.

^You're just digging a hole. Why not fathers ? Do you not see a problem here ?

No. There are no men because there were no male souls stored (and because the primarily-female clutch of deities involved were creating a counter to the at-that-point really, really male-dominated societies of Ancient Greece; nevertheless, they did not create an anti-male society, as you can see when the Amazons happily interact with Hercules and his men and agree to party with them (which they get burned by, and so understandably become somewhat resentful, though they ultimately forgive Hercules when he sees the error of his ways and apologizes (before John Byrne and Allan Heinberg botched his character arc; dumbasses)).

 

[Hermiod]

^Yeah, and I'm not pretending he is a hero. Civil War pretty much disproved that.

 

[CaptainCanada]

^Yeah, and I'm not pretending he is a hero. Civil War pretty much disproved that.

Uh-huh. His movie makes it quite clear that he's a hero, and audiences endorsed it quite heartily with their dollars.

 

[Hermiod]

^Yeah, and I'm not pretending he is a hero. Civil War pretty much disproved that.

Uh-huh. His movie makes it quite clear that he's a hero, and audiences endorsed it quite heartily with their dollars.

And I disagree with him being presented as such based on his comic book history. Yes, they are different interpretations of the character.

If you're trying to make out that my view here is somehow conflicted, you're wrong.

 

[Jeyl]

If you're trying to make out that my view here is somehow conflicted, you're wrong.

It's not so much your view point is conflicted, it's just very one dimensional. You're basing Wonder Woman and the Amazons from one incarnation. And that incarnation wasn't even a good one at that. Your looking for the worst of things when there is so much better and more relevant material out there.

And let's not forget that Batman himself can be a non-supportive dick at times. Heck, Superman has a whole website dedicated to how much of an evil person he really is! The only charge Wonder Woman has is being tied up by her own Lasso.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I saw the movie last week thanks to a friend who got it pre-street and I agree with pretty much with what everyone has said about it. The animation was spectacular, by far the best animated of the three movies...can't wait to see what they do with Green Lantern. The story it's self was way too faced paced even the "slower" character scenes between Diana and Steve Trevor in New York were fast. The voice cast was excellent, Kerri Russel (who I've been a big fan of since Felicity) and Nathan Fillion were great together. I think their romance was too obvious and forced but with a 74 minute time constraint I just answered my own question as to why that was. Not going to get into a debate about the portrayal of the Amazons which I thought was pretty spot on and I kept on thinking about Bruce Wayne's arguement with Diana about the Amazons philosphy in Kingdom Come lol. The origin was pretty good...didn't like Ares so much for some reason. I loved the use of Greek Mythology, one of the reasons why I like Wonder Woman so much. Overall I would give the movie a strong 7/10 and bring on Green Lantern. The preview art on the disc on what I saw on the internet looks really spectacular!

 

[Hermiod]

If you're trying to make out that my view here is somehow conflicted, you're wrong.

It's not so much your view point is conflicted, it's just very one dimensional. You're basing Wonder Woman and the Amazons from one incarnation. And that incarnation wasn't even a good one at that. Your looking for the worst of things when there is so much better and more relevant material out there.

I'm basing them on how they've been presented over decades. Amazons Attack was just the worst.

At the end of the day, they're still saying that a female only society is superior just by being female only. It's sexist, it's demeaning and it has no place in stories that children with impressionable minds might read.

 

[cbspock]

I watched it on Bluray, and I thought it was really good.I think the way it ended, opened it to a sequel or possible series, which would be nice.

Landing the jet in Central Park, reminded me of the scene in Star Trek 4, when they land the cloaked Bird of Prey in Golden Gate Park.


I hope they do another movie or start a series.

It does seem that writers have a tough time writing for Wonder Woman, compared to Batman, or even Superman. The Wonder Woman shown in this movie sort of reminded me of Wonder Woman in the Lynda Carter series, with some of the JLA series bits thrown in.

I thought the specials on the disc were interesting.

One character element I liked in JLA was her team ups with Batman.


-Chris

 

[Jeyl]

At the end of the day, they're still saying that a female only society is superior just by being female only. It's sexist, it's demeaning and it has no place in stories that children with impressionable minds might read.

Honestly, I didn't get that impression. I do in this movie (which is the problem), but not from her other stories. After all, I've read wonder woman stories where the Amazons were quite welcoming to male outsiders, until one day when the demi-god Heracles betrayed the amazons and disgraced them by raping and chaining them (Their wrist bracers are symbolic to this). And after the Amazons slayed their captors and rapists, they were sent to the island as punishment!

Heck, they even had Heracles carry the weight of the whole darn island for who knows how many years until Hippolyta actually convinced her fellow amazon followers to join her in forgiving him!

 

[Hermiod]

^Jeyl, I'm done here. I'm tired of this I've been accused of a few things today and the more I protest the more it looks like it's true so if I'm going to do the time, I may as well do the crime.

You think women are better than men, that's up to you. I strongly disagree but this is the last time I reply to anything you or anyone else who demonstrates that opinion has to say.