In the United States until recently I believe you're correct and people from central and southern Asia were regarded as "caucasian" due to language roots or something lame like that. Now I believe there are multple categories of Asian: East, South, etc. but it's been a long time since I took a census in America.
Woman arrested for flying while Arab
- Thread starter Argus Skyhawk
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In the United States until recently I believe you're correct and people from central and southern Asia were regarded as "caucasian" due to language roots or something lame like that. Now I believe there are multple categories of Asian: East, South, etc. but it's been a long time since I took a census in America.
I think it would depend on whatever racial theory one goes by. Emotionally, these days, I'd guess folks in the US would say no, not white. White itself being a term more emotional by the day since I haven't ever heard anything on what constitutes white land, except those folks who are oppressing the not white people. Racialist theories used skull measurements, as well as ancestry and stated ethnic type to parse out races, most of it boiling down to who was worth having around versus those best kept away from the decent folk.
There is a rather good book by Robert Proctor, 'Racial Hygiene: Medicine under the Nazis' which gives a very good overview of racial theory and traces what the Nazis did with the theories. It is alarming how much of what they did was simply expanding on existing dubious 'science' and the laws and practices already in place utilizing racial theory. I long for the day when the days of this thinking is long behind us. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be coming any time soon.
Really?!! Really?!!! You're going there?
I used to be white until 9/11.
"Watch your step, McGurk! This place changes a man!" - "Oh yeah, in what way?" - "I used to be white. Worth the trouble for the Osmonds."
My standard reply to numbnut statements like this:
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."- Benjamin Franklin
No, because Persia is now called IRAN. You know, the next country the ultraright want us to invade.
I don't think traditional Linnaean racist classifications ever firmly put Middle Eastern peoples into a category. I think they'd have to be considered White, but obviously modern racism makes a distinction. Iranians are Indo-European, of course, but they're still Middle Eastern.
But more relevant is that they aren't Arab. Iranians get quite upset at being mistaken for Arabs, I've noticed.
I use "Iran" and "Iranian" to refer to the country itself or things originating there, but "Persian" seems to be an acceptable demonym for the ethnicity. Persians can be found in places besides Iran, for that matter.
All this shit would stop if people worldwide started to finally not give a fuck about nationalities and ethnics.
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Without going all the way back and finding the actual reply. I suspect most people would accept be padding down, a swap to check for explosives etc.. But the instance we are discussing, took place once the plane had landed, not before it took off. Though before or arfter, there is a line that should not be crossed. It appears in this instance the line was crossed. The quote of Franklin's neatly sums it up.
Several Police forces already have stop and search powers, so being asked for a pat down at an Airport by security forces isn't exactly pushing the boundaries of what is already accepted.
I was hoping someone would get that.
But more relevant is that they aren't Arab. Iranians get quite upset at being mistaken for Arabs, I've noticed.
Yup. Even when I was a kid I knew the difference; and argued about it with my music teacher when I was in third grade. She kept on insisting I was Arab-American. This was in 1988.
Not that I don't believe you, but, when was this and where in Ireland are you from and where were you travelling from in England/Scotland/Wales or were you travelling from Northern Ireland down to the Republic?
My other half who is from the Republic has never heard of such a thing but her dad just informed us that there was very threatening security on a flight the night before a car bomb outside Harrods.
Well, I think even what happens in terminals is a bit over the line in most cases but at least it's a touch or two "reasonable." I suppose.
But what happened on the plane is vastly out of line.
But what happened on the plane is vastly out of line.
But more relevant is that they aren't Arab. Iranians get quite upset at being mistaken for Arabs, I've noticed.
Yeah, I was careful to say Middle Eastern, since Arab is absolutely wrong. However, although they're not Arab, I wouldn't call them Caucasian either. They're Iranian. It would be nice if the sentence could end there. After all Caucasian isn't a very helpful term (Greeks and Italians vs. Scandinavians). But there's some odd desire for people to believe that there is any logical classification by race.
But more relevant is that they aren't Arab. Iranians get quite upset at being mistaken for Arabs, I've noticed.
Yeah, I was careful to say Middle Eastern, since Arab is absolutely wrong. However, although they're not Arab, I wouldn't call them Caucasian either. They're Iranian. It would be nice if the sentence could end there. After all Caucasian isn't a very helpful term (Greeks and Italians vs. Scandinavians). But there's some odd desire for people to believe that there is any logical classification by race.
The only purpose to the logic of racial classifications was to justify ambitions by the users of the methods. I often find discussion of culture can take on aspects of racialist thinking.
In general, you need to be doing something wrong before most police forces can stop and search you in public. The closer analogy is going into a club or other private business. The club can impose conditions of entry such as a pat down by the bouncer. You can refuse the pat down, but that means you don't go in. Airport security is more along those lines - the idea is that you accept the conditions by choosing to fly. The distinction is important, I think, because the latter allows for them to operate in essence outside the rules of law enforcement, and apply near on any condition they fancy.
While I don't think a patdown is unreasonable, provided you know such things are regular occurrences before you get in line for the plane, strip searches are not. Nor are police pat downs. At least this side of the pond, they require actual reasons to suspect a particular person rather than people in general. And, no, an anonymous report of "suspicious behavior" doesn't count. It needs to be things you can particularly articulate for why you suspect they've done something unlawful.
As I've asked before, would any of this have happened if the woman, and the two other men, were white?
If they were doing exact-same "suspicious" things only white would the same plane-board passenger/crewman had alerted the proper people?
If the answer is "no, it wouldn't have happened" then what happened here was racist (or nationalist, if you prefer) and should not have happened.
This woman and the other passengers were singled out because of the color of their skin.
If they were doing exact-same "suspicious" things only white would the same plane-board passenger/crewman had alerted the proper people?
If the answer is "no, it wouldn't have happened" then what happened here was racist (or nationalist, if you prefer) and should not have happened.
This woman and the other passengers were singled out because of the color of their skin.
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