WIP: LOST-YEARS ERA WARPSHUTTLE/MARINE ASSAULT SHUTTLE

[JES]

Not only that, but isn't the Federation Constitution supposed to have been based off of the United States Constitution, and I think that some of the ways that the United States government was operated also inspired some of the organization for not only the United Earth, but also in turn the Federation.

It makes perfect sense that the United States would have played a vital part in how the United Earth was formed, given it's reputation, and there would probably have been popular demand for a global government to be based somewhat on the government of the United States, since everyone would demand that such a government would be a democracy, especially if you take into account the Optimum movement and all the chaos they caused. Most people would probably want a government that could prevent such a group from ever gaining enough power to cause such horror ever again, which would require safeguards against the corruption that is slowly rotting not only the U.S. now, but could collapse the global economy too.

But that is besides the point. If the United States emphatically wanted to carry over some of their traditions into the United Earth, and then the United Federation in turn, and there wasn't really enough opposition to the notion, or some other competing traditions that were better at the time, they could have very well made it over to the Federation as well.

Besides, isn't the United States Presidency a symbol of the free world? Perhaps that image could have affected the Vulcans too, who had definitely been examining the development of human societies for quite some time.

It is just a matter of creating craft that have equivalent functions to the ones that are currently used.

 

[WinstonSmith]

well, obviously IRL the federation is based on the US, as the show is made in america, for americans, so there's a certain presumption that the show is going to focus on americans.
but I dunno, it doesn't sit too well with me that instead of the UE being a sort of "super UN", containing representatives of all the nations on earth, it is essentially the case that the USA annexed the rest of the world and nobody noticed...
I certainly think there's room for parallel between the US and UFP (I mean, the very fact that they have a president at all is rather indicative of that, instead of a prime minister or a centaurian smgtler ) ,but down to the name of the president's diplomatic craft? I realise that other series obviously do use the allegory quite blatantly (babylon 5, BSG etc.) but I really don't see the point in making the UFP "space america" any more than it already is. plus, seeing politics as it stands at the moment, it's probably more likely that it'd be "the peoples republic of planets" anyway

 

[Scott1768]

"Space America! FRACK YEAH!!"

 

[Cmdr_Blop]

So, I'm adding a sheet to the set of warpshuttle plans showing it in various configurations - ambulance, cargo, etc. One of them is STARFLEET ONE.

Some of you may think that the UFP President's diplomatic craft should be huge like a dreadnought or something. I think the Federation would be cool enough that its President would have to compensate for a small...planet...with a huge ship.

As far as defense is concerned, she would always be accompanied by a squadron of fighters, plus, just out of sight, a small task force of starships.

Thoughts? ideas? *Constructive* criticisms? :-)

YES!!! Finally, someone who gets that a real "Starfleet One" would be a Runabout-sized craft, and not some utterly stupid and fanwanky mega-dreadnought-super-uber-colossus of a ship with four warp nacelles, a hundred phaser banks, and fifty torpedo launchers, with God knows what other kinds of fanwanky tripe.

THIS... this I love, because this is what would be. When President Obama goes to a summit abroad, what does he do? He takes Air Force One... a Boeing 747, he doesn't take the U.S.S. Nimitz, a huge aircraft carrier.

Great work... I also love the ambulance version.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Well, Obama hasn't gone on all that many summits, and it's a MASSIVE undertaking when a President DOES go overseas... And a runabout is more along the lines of a Cessna Citation than it is of a 747.

I like the idea that this is "Marine One" (the Presidential shuttle helicopter) but not "Air Force One."

If this is "Starfleet One," there should also be a "Federation One."

I DO agree that "Federation One" should not be an "UBER-FANWANK-BATTLEWAGON," though. But it ought to be a lot bigger than a shuttlecraft. And when it travels, it ought to be escorted by an entire support fleet (a cruiser, at least two destroyers, etc).

If I were going to create "Federation One," I'd make it something very much along the lines of a 747 in size and scale... maybe twice that, actually, to permit an embarked security detail to resist boardings and so forth (something not really an issue with a 747 these days, is it?). Something along the lines of a Defiant or a Grissom or a Nova class ship, in terms of size and configuration. But not a full "class one starship."

 

[Cmdr_Blop]

^

Why should there be an Federation One? I don't get this kind of thinking... there's no "America One"... just an Air Force One... so why should there be a Federation One?

 

[sojourner]

It's just a name. Don't get too hung up on it.

 

[Cmdr_Blop]

Well I mean, it's just so redundant... Starfleet One, Federation One... I mean, in Star Trek's universe, you have a whole fleet of starships, and any one of them could transport the President to a planet of base for a meeting... you don't need a special "Federation One" just for one man... think of all that wasted space!

With a Runabout-sized craft, you have warp capability, weapons ability, and plenty of room for an aft "VIP office" where the President and alien leader can meet and converse in comfort. That's all you need.

Having a full-sized starship do the task would be like the U.S. President calling an aircraft carrier home to Washington, just so he could board it, and have it take him all the way back to the Persian Gulf... what a waste of resources!

 

[JES]

At this point, we are trying to figure out how the President's means of transportation would parallel with the United State's President's current means of transportation, provided of course that all the other members of UE and UFP didn't mind the use of such traditions, though that is another discussion altogether.

As far as I'm aware, the President of the United States currently has a specialized limo for travel on the ground, a helicopter for short-ranged air travel, and finally Air Force One, a customized Boeing 747, which is meant for long-ranged travel, and I believe is also modified for being refueled in mid-air and for long flight-times and range. So the question is how these vehicles would evolve about 280 odd years from now.

The limo, when it comes down to it's basic's, probably wouldn't change very much. It would be meant for travel on the ground. It would probably still resemble a car visually, though I imagine in the future, once we oust fossil fuels as the energy source for automobiles in exchange for a clean, sustainable energy source, such as fuel cells, our current highways will be replaced by ones that will allow much higher speeds (like the ones in I Robot, or like the Autobahn in Germany), and so vehicles will be built for those high speeds and safety in case of accidents (even though computers control vehicles seems very likely, so accidents would more likely be caused by the occasional glitch). Hover cars were also mentioned in Voyager, so that is likely what the limo would be. I'm not going to ignore the possibility that beaming might be used instead, however. This is obviously not what we currently see here, however, this could be a fun project for someone to explore one day.

It is likely that the helicopter would be replaced by something capable of traveling inside a star system, and perhaps beyond. This is because I imagine that "Starfleet One" probably need to be able to travel throughout the Federation and beyond, in the same way that Air Force One can fly around the world, while in this case, a shuttle or runabout would be perfect for shorter journeys that are off-world, or for transporting the President to "Starfleet One", which would have to be a starship with extensive range. However, a runabout probably wouldn't be ideal for journeys to distant worlds.

I agree that "Starfleet One" would not be a vessel capable of attack (unless we are talking about the Mirror Universe, then maybe...). Air Force One is unarmed, and only has defensive systems (chaff launchers, electronic warfare counter-mechanisms, etc), so it is quite possible that her distant descendant would be similarly unarmed, though it might depend on how easily technology and future construction techniques allow weapon banks to be equipped. Even then, they would almost certainly be meant more for defense, such as phaser banks. Torpedo Launchers are highly unlikely.

How big "Starfleet One" would be would depend on the number of representatives that might need to be carried, as well as the size of the crew.

 

[Shizzlick]

Presidents don't just travel alone, they have large numbers of staff and security with them that certainly couldn't all fit in a ship the size of a runabout for long journeys. Runabout sized craft are also much slower than full sized starships, so a journey of more than a few lightyears would be even more impractical.

More likely is a ship of similar size to the Nova class. That would be big enough to allow for a shuttlebay to carry a runabout like this and have quarters for the President and all his staff, large conference areas, extensive communications equipment, solid defences and be capable of high warp speeds.

It's also far more impressive than just a runabout, after all, prestige and appearance is important in diplomacy.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Air Force One is the official air traffic control call sign of any United States Air Force aircraft carrying the President of the United States, and Marine One is the same, only in that case it is a Marine aircraft*. There are aircraft that have been built specifically for serving the purpose, but they only carry the call signs if the POTUS is onboard. (If that same plane, for instance, is carring the Vice President and not the POTUS, it is "Air Force Two".)

If that tradition carried through to the timeframe of Star Trek, perhaps shuttles would be called Starfleet One (and maybe even MACO One?) when the President of the Federation is aboard, but then again, maybe not, since starships - even shuttles - seem to be regarded as more analogous to naval boats/ships than to aircraft.

*FYI: There has only ever been a Navy One once - the aircraft that Bush 43 was aboard during the "Mission Accomplished" PR event. There has never been a Coast Guard One - although V.P. Biden flew on a helicopter designated Coast Guard Two in 2009. Army One used to see fairly regular use, but as far as I can tell, was last used under Nixon.

 

[largo]

*FYI: There has only ever been a Navy One once - the aircraft that Bush 43 was aboard during the "Mission Accomplished" PR event. There has never been a Coast Guard One - although V.P. Biden flew on a helicopter designated Coast Guard Two in 2009. Army One used to see fairly regular use, but as far as I can tell, was last used under Nixon.

and to be complete, Executive One is the call sign for a civil aircraft carrying the president.

 

[USS Triumphant]

and to be complete, Executive One is the call sign for a civil aircraft carrying the president.

Cool - I didn't know that one! Just researched it:

Flying on a civil aircraft with that designation was done only once, by Nixon. But the craft normally designated Marine One was given the call sign "Executive One" once when it took on Bush 43, whose term as president had just expired, as well.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

All of the comments just made were perfectly correct, by the way...

Instead of quibbling over "names," perhaps we should be talking about ROLES (as was raised, above, as well). I mentioned "Federation One" along with "Starfleet One" because I envisioned the big transport as being a civilian craft, not a military one. (And like it or not, Starfleet is a military organization... G.R's latter-years delusions aside.)

There are lots of reasons that the elected leader of a massive interplanetery organization would not travel in a small, vulnerable shuttle, except in the most secure of situations.

It has been mentioned that this should be parallel to current US practices, but that's not the reason at all. In fact, it makes more sense to say that "current US practices are based upon the most practical way to safely and securely transport a leader from one location to another." These same practices are followed by other leaders (USSR/Russia, China, etc) as well.

The leader does not travel alone. He travels with staff, he travels with security, he travels with the press (well, ours do... Chinese or Russian leaders, not so much).

So... what are the functions that "Presidential Transports" (without regard to nomenclature) need to serve?

1) Secure planetside transportation. The equivalent of the "Presidential Limo" today, but remembering that the limo never travels alone, it is always part of a motorcade, and there are also airborne assets providing security as well.

2) Short-range transport... the equivalent of our current "Marine One" helicopter. That's the role I see this particular shuttle as serving. It's not intended for long-range, unsecured, unescorted transport, either, by the way. Marine One never flies without escort, does it? You don't see the escort at the White House lawn, but it's there when the bird is in the air, trust me.

4) Long-range transportation. That's what we call "Air Force One." This is basically a mobile command center, with a full staff, a full security detail, living quarters, etc. It's basically the White House with wings, with all the resources needed to keep things going even if the White House was destroyed.

Go forward 250-350 years, and these basic principles still apply. Presidential travel would be rarer than it is today... holographic displays and the like would further reduce the need for that, but it would still be required by protocol from time to time.

We do have one "on-screen" example of this, by the way. We have Qo'nos One, from ST-VI.

 

[Ensign Ro-]

Ro,

Thanks for the compliments. This pic should clear up your questions, I believe. They are of the MICU variant, but the basic design philosophy is the same.

The impulse engines are mounted in the warp nacelle support pylons (the red areas in the aft view). If you look at the cockpit in the plan view, you will see a station at the port aft area. This is the Ship Systems Monitor station. That's as close to an engine room as this warpshuttle gets.[/QUOTE]


Ahhhhh, I see now. VERY clever engineering and practical use of space. Makes me appreciate the design that much more. :-)

 

[DrCorby]

Runabout sized craft are also much slower than full sized starships, so a journey of more than a few lightyears would be even more impractical.

More likely is a ship of similar size to the Nova class. That would be big enough to allow for a shuttlebay to carry a runabout like this and have quarters for the President and all his staff, large conference areas, extensive communications equipment, solid defences and be capable of high warp speeds.

As far as I'm aware, the President of the United States currently has a specialized limo for travel on the ground, a helicopter for short-ranged air travel, and finally Air Force One, a customized Boeing 747, which is meant for long-ranged travel, and I believe is also modified for being refueled in mid-air and for long flight-times and range. So the question is how these vehicles would evolve about 280 odd years from now.

<snip>

It is likely that the helicopter would be replaced by something capable of traveling inside a star system, and perhaps beyond. This is because I imagine that "Starfleet One" probably need to be able to travel throughout the Federation and beyond, in the same way that Air Force One can fly around the world, while in this case, a shuttle or runabout would be perfect for shorter journeys that are off-world, or for transporting the President to "Starfleet One", which would have to be a starship with extensive range. However, a runabout probably wouldn't be ideal for journeys to distant worlds.

Having a full-sized starship do the task would be like the U.S. President calling an aircraft carrier home to Washington, just so he could board it, and have it take him all the way back to the Persian Gulf... what a waste of resources!

You're thinking about present-day reality, but a better analogy might be the WWII era, where that sort of thing did happen. As Shizzlick and Jes pointed out, runabout-sized craft are only capable of about Warp 4, not really fast enough to get the President to conferences any distance away in a reasonable time. Today, a 747 is pretty much the fastest way to get elsewhere on Earth, especially between continents. But earlier aircraft weren't as fast and capable, not to mention large. This would be analagous to Star Trek's era, I think.

During WWII, Presidents Roosevelt and Truman travelled to summits with the other Allied nations aboard Navy cruisers, I believe. They were better capable of making a long, trans-oceanic voyage, able to protect themselves from enemies, and large enough for the Presidential staffs. Aircraft of the period didn't have the range (they would have needed to stop for refueling several times), weren't as defensible, and certainly not roomy enough for the staff.

In the Star Trek era, as I see it, when travelling to distant conferences the President (& staff) would use a runabout (or transporter) to board a starship, which would then transport them at Warp 6 to 8 (typical cruising speed) to the destination. Then the party would take the runabout to the conference site (or use the transporter). The starship would be whatever appropriate ship is near enough for the duty.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

In the Star Trek era, as I see it, when travelling to distant conferences the President (& staff) would use a runabout (or transporter) to board a starship, which would then transport them at Warp 6 to 8 (typical cruising speed) to the destination. Then the party would take the runabout to the conference site (or use the transporter). The starship would be whatever appropriate ship is near enough for the duty.

Agreed.

The only bit you left out (and I'm assuming it's oversight rather than intent) is that the ships in question would be escorted by more heavily armed craft as well... with the idea that if the group was engaged, the President's craft could flee while the escort group engaged the hostiles.

For a "shuttle" this would involve some form of fighter escort, while for the big transport, this would likely involve several destroyer-level craft temporarily tasked to the role, but not permanently assigned.

 

[Data Holmes]

Air Force One is the official air traffic control call sign of any United States Air Force aircraft carrying the President of the United States, and Marine One is the same, only in that case it is a Marine aircraft*. There are aircraft that have been built specifically for serving the purpose, but they only carry the call signs if the POTUS is onboard. (If that same plane, for instance, is carring the Vice President and not the POTUS, it is "Air Force Two".)

If that tradition carried through to the timeframe of Star Trek, perhaps shuttles would be called Starfleet One (and maybe even MACO One?) when the President of the Federation is aboard, but then again, maybe not, since starships - even shuttles - seem to be regarded as more analogous to naval boats/ships than to aircraft.

*FYI: There has only ever been a Navy One once - the aircraft that Bush 43 was aboard during the "Mission Accomplished" PR event. There has never been a Coast Guard One - although V.P. Biden flew on a helicopter designated Coast Guard Two in 2009. Army One used to see fairly regular use, but as far as I can tell, was last used under Nixon.

Navy One actually was an unofficial name/radio call sign for a presidential yacht. I remember seeing a photo of, I want to say Truman but I'm not sure, behind it's controls in an old school library book back in the day. I think the text mentioned that it was an in joke but that it may have served for the later use of the service[\I] + mission[\I] designation later used with air force one, ect.

 

[DrCorby]

In the Star Trek era, as I see it, when travelling to distant conferences the President (& staff) would use a runabout (or transporter) to board a starship, which would then transport them at Warp 6 to 8 (typical cruising speed) to the destination. Then the party would take the runabout to the conference site (or use the transporter). The starship would be whatever appropriate ship is near enough for the duty.

Agreed.

The only bit you left out (and I'm assuming it's oversight rather than intent) is that the ships in question would be escorted by more heavily armed craft as well... with the idea that if the group was engaged, the President's craft could flee while the escort group engaged the hostiles.

For a "shuttle" this would involve some form of fighter escort, while for the big transport, this would likely involve several destroyer-level craft temporarily tasked to the role, but not permanently assigned.

Yes, I agree that it makes sense for there to be a number of escort ships. Early threat detection, protective combat, and providing cover while the president's ship retreated, if necessary, would be logical roles.