• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

William Gibson, what am I missing

The Squire of Gothos

Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
I read something of his, Neuromancer, I wasn't impressed. His writing seems to be of the form "In the future we'll have cool stuff, we'll do cool things with this cool stuff. Also, the internet will plug into our minds".

I've read more entertaining stuff of this sort (with or without the internet in your head) from many other authors, is there something more vital that I didn't "get"? There seems to be an indecent amount of respect for him from some quarters, what does the world owe him?
 
I haven't read any of his books, but everything i've seen on screen based on his stuff has been mostly awful.

Johnny Mnemonic and New Rose Hotel are terrible films, and one of the episodes of X-files he wrote, First Person Shooter is my least favourite X-files episode. That may have to do with Carter's appalling direction and the horrible production design and effects.

Killswitch was a good episode though.
 
It's not so much that he writes about the net plugging into our heads, it's that he did it first, long before the internet was as big as it is today.

A lot of the early visionary sci-fi stories are a bit lacking when read these days, because we've been saturated with the concepts therein.
 
Neuromancer was written in 1984, around the time Apple released the first Macintosh. William Gibson pretty much invented the world we live in today. It's not his fault that his ideas proved to be so popular that they've been pillaged and plundered by thousands of writers and filmmakers since then.
 
I always liked how Gibson turned a phrase myself, I dig his prose as much as the stories themselves. Stories about hackers and down-on-their-luck outsiders don't hurt though.

He is - dare I say - the father of cyberpunk. Didn't he even coin the term?

Cyberspace anyway, a term I believe he chose to leave in the public domain when approached about taking advantage of it commercially or so I remember.
 
Giving credit where credit is do, however I have had troubles getting through some of his books. He is an original that is for sure, but sometimes his books just can't get me started....tough to put my finger on it, and nothing against him.....

One of my cyberpunk favorites is Vurt by Jeff Noon.
 
Although a pioneer, his work seems weak today. That's ok, though, because he (as already pointed out) started cyberpunk. He'll be remembered for that. For a taste of the latest view on that sort of thing try Vernor Vinge's Rainbow's End.
 
I always liked how Gibson turned a phrase myself, I dig his prose as much as the stories themselves.

I'm the same way. I thought Pattern Recognition and Spook Country, his two newest, were lackluster to blah respectively... But, I love his voice so every so often I'll even pick those up just to indulge in the sound of it all.
 
When Gibson started, his ideas were revolutionary but his writing was scattershot, and at times unintelligible (at least to me.) I think he's become a better writer over the years, but the ideas have shrunk down to nothing. He's really more of a post-modernist writer now.
 
I've read more entertaining stuff of this sort (with or without the internet in your head) from many other authors, is there something more vital that I didn't "get"? There seems to be an indecent amount of respect for him from some quarters, what does the world owe him?

Time and place. His stuff was sort of impressive and en vogue when it was new(ish).

This reminds me of the Michael Crichton novel Red Sun. It was full of lots of cutting edge and speculative technology. Now all of that stuff in that book is real and in common usage, so the book and the movie both feel less like subtle science fiction and more like a bland police procedural. (In fact, the portrayal of some of the technology in the movie is a bit laughable today.)
 
Gibson is also remembered for his thoughts on the relationship of the body to technology. He predicted we would become cyborgs through computer technology and we have. While we are not down to implanting technology directly into our body (except in cases where it is necessary to rebuild some broken biological thing, like a knee or heart valve), we have extended our bodies into our technology. We are rarely without our phones and our computer terminals. This has been written about a good deal in philosophical and sociological circles - the alteration of human culture and behavior due to personal, and personalized, technology.

Makes me think of a great moment in one of the early Star Trek novels, Uhura's Song. The crew meet an alien species of intelligent cats with perfect recall. When the cats discover the crew recording events on their tricorders, they flatten their ears back and exclaim, "You keep your memories outside of your bodies??" We do, you know, and when you think of it that way, it's almost creepy.
 
The big point to be made about Gibson has been made already, but what the hell. You can't get out of Neuromancer in 2009 what I got out of it in 1985, because it isn't 1985 any more. The world has changed and Neuromancer helped change it. Even in '85 it had some clear antecedents, but it wrapped a lot of things together that hadn't been mixed before: Raymond Chandler, Philip K. Dick, the birth of the personal computer age, pop culture, modern Japan -- he may not have known much about certain of those things, but he helped bring them to the attention of a lot of people.

It's like Blade Runner. A lot of people these days seem to be disappointed by it if they're just seeing it for the first time, because they've heard so much about how original and different and groundbreaking it was, but they've seen shitloads of movies, TV commercials, video games, anime, and other things that swipe wholesale from Blade Runner. In 1982, nobody had seen anything like Blade Runner. It really was that cool and amazing then.

I could make the same point about a lot of things, like the kiddie punks who hear the Sex Pistols or the Clash now and wonder what the big deal is, not knowing just how alien and bizarre punk rock seemed in the late 1970s.

He is - dare I say - the father of cyberpunk. Didn't he even coin the term?

Bruce Bethke coined the term cyberpunk, I believe. But he had a slightly different meaning in mind and was never really associated with cyberpunk as a movement within SF.
 
I would actually recommend the short stories in Burning Chrome over Neuromancer to a first-time reader. "Johnny Mnemonic" and "New Rose Hotel" were both excellent short stories before they became crappy movies.

Although, once again, what was revolutionary back in the early 80s may seem commonplace now. In fact, now that I think about it, a lot of cyberpunk has not aged very well. John Shirley's A Song Called Youth trilogy was out of date even before the final volume was published.

I've seen Gibson in person, twice: once when he was still writing The Difference Engine with Sterling, and once when he had just published Virtual Light. He gives very entertaining readings from his own work.
 
Last edited:
Never got to see him do a reading, though I did see him at a couple of book signings, for The Difference Engine (Bruce Sterling was there too, so I also got them to sign my copies of their respective first novels, Neuromancer and Involution Ocean) and Virtual Light.

A Song for Youth... yeah, John Shirley's an interesting case. Some of his stuff is really good and seems likely to have some staying power, some of it is very much of its moment, and some of it is just awful. Or, being charitable, trying to do something that I just don't get. Three Ring Psychus, for example. I liked A Song for Youth at the time but I doubt I'll ever reread it.
 
Makes me think of a great moment in one of the early Star Trek novels, Uhura's Song. The crew meet an alien species of intelligent cats with perfect recall. When the cats discover the crew recording events on their tricorders, they flatten their ears back and exclaim, "You keep your memories outside of your bodies??" We do, you know, and when you think of it that way, it's almost creepy.
But we always have. We became cyborgs with the first reed pressed on a plank of mud.
 
Makes me think of a great moment in one of the early Star Trek novels, Uhura's Song. The crew meet an alien species of intelligent cats with perfect recall. When the cats discover the crew recording events on their tricorders, they flatten their ears back and exclaim, "You keep your memories outside of your bodies??" We do, you know, and when you think of it that way, it's almost creepy.
But we always have. We became cyborgs with the first reed pressed on a plank of mud.

Indeed, but we rarely think of it that way. When people today hear of oral historians that could speak memorized lineages that took days to recite in full, they are shocked to think humans have that sort of memory capacity because we've become so used to the idea of memory-keeping technology. At the same time we maintain a conceit that we are separate from our technologies in some esoteric way. I doubt many people think of their personal computer (or their written diary) as an extension of their brain/ soul/ self, even though it is. Mention the idea of having computer memory chips implanted into a person's brain (that is, merely to have us access information stored on chips with neural action rather than our fingers and eyes) and watch the revulsion with which most people react. Gibson is still interesting in some ways because his work included breaking down the biological/ technological divide and not seeing it as evil or fundamentally unnatural. Though, granted, his worlds are bleak, continuing a long tradition of SF that is deeply ambivalent about technology and its effect of humans and human society.
 
Indeed, but we rarely think of it that way. When people today hear of oral historians that could speak memorized lineages that took days to recite in full, they are shocked to think humans have that sort of memory capacity because we've become so used to the idea of memory-keeping technology. At the same time we maintain a conceit that we are separate from our technologies in some esoteric way. I doubt many people think of their personal computer (or their written diary) as an extension of their brain/ soul/ self, even though it is.

I don't think I agree with that. Nor do I agree that 'we became cyborgs with the first reed pressed on a plank of mud.'

Written records aren't a form of memory, or "memory-keeping technology". They're a substitute for memory, and for the sort of memory-training that allowed oral historians to perform the sorts of feats you describe.

Take me, for an example. Right now, as I type this message, I'm sitting in an office lined with books on a variety of topics--mostly history, but some philosophy and literature.

I have these books in my office partly because I have nowhere else to put them, but mostly because I need them at hand when I'm doing research, and when I'm writing lectures. I don't have the training necessary to remember more than a tiny fraction of the information contained therein.

Instead of trying to memorize the contents of these books, as ancient scholars did, I use my memory as an index file. Suppose I need information on, say, the 1892 cholera epidemic in Hamburg, Germany. In my long-term memory, there's a brief abstract of a book called Death in Hamburg: Society and Politics in the Cholera Years by Richard Evans. This abstract includes this book's most important conclusions, along with some of its more interesting details, and finally, its location on my shelves--over there, second shelf, on the left.

But the book itself isn't full of 'memories'. Its full of writing--that is to say, its full of signs, in the form of marks on pieces of paper. If I need some detailed information from this book, I pull it down off the shelf, read the signs therein, and commit this information to short-term memory. Then, once the need has passed, the book goes back on the shelf, and the detailed information is forgotten.

That book is also not an extension of myself, in any meaningful sense. Physically, it's quite separate from my body, and there is very little correspondence between its contents and the contents of my mind. It's no more a form of cybernetics than the bus I'll be riding home in the evening, or the microwave I'll be using to warm my dinner. (Insert bachelor joke here) Anything I can leave behind in my office overnight just isn't a part of my 'self'. It is other.

I think that, by defining cybernetics so broadly, you're both essentially inflating this term to the point that it lacks any distinctive meaning, and using it as a synonym for "technology."

After all, the distinctive feature of cybernetic technology (as most people understand that term) is that you can't leave it at the office--or even take it off, the way you can with clothes or eyeglasses--or take it out, the way you can with dentures and contact lenses. It is a part of you, and would require surgery to remove, like any other body part.

To return to Gibson: what made Molly a cyborg was her retractable razors and the mirrored lenses she had grafted over her eyes. It is this process of grafting, this creation of a hybrid biological-mechanical organism, that defines a cyborg.
 
I think it's important to approach works like "Neuromancer" with a different mindset than you would current ones. If you think back to what 1985 was like, what was possible and what was considered possible, I think the book is quite amazing and indeed visionary.

When Gibson started, his ideas were revolutionary but his writing was scattershot, and at times unintelligible (at least to me.)

I am so glad to see I'm not the only one! In fact, I read "Neuromancer" twice when I first picked it up a year or so ago. The first time through, I was really fighting with his writing style and understanding what the hell he was on about in some cases. In a sense, it felt like he wasn't making himself very clear - to me, anyway.

Unsurprisingly, I didn't enjoy the first read much and didn't really grasp as much as I wanted to. The second read was much, MUCH more enjoyable, and the whole story, the ideas and the characters became much clearer to me.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top