• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Will Rogers Centre/Skydome ever be replaced?

Mr. Laser Beam

Fleet Admiral
Admiral
We don't have many stadiums like Rogers down here anymore; ever since '92 (with Oriole Park), we've been having a mad flurry of *real* baseball parks being built to replace the cookie cutters. So the old monstrosities are going away; by 2012 or thereabouts, we won't have any left. At least not for baseball. (I don't know what Metrodome, McAfee, and Dolphin Stadium will be used for when their baseball teams clear out. Hopefully as wrecking ball practice!)

My question is, are there any plans to do this with Rogers Centre? That sure seems like a cookie cutter to me. Do Canadians have a more relaxed attitude to what they consider a real ballpark? Do the Blue Jays just not particularly want a real ballpark to play in? How can they stand playing in a piece of shit like that?
 
I don't think Skydome was supposed to be cookie cutter. It was a pretty state of the art place, with hotels in center field and everything. Coincidentally, my wife is going to a game there this week. I'll post her thoughts on it at some point.

I like a nice stadium as much as the next guy, but I think some of them have gotten a little too gimicky to outdo the one before it. Like that ridiculous hill in center field in whatever Houston's stadium is called these days.
 
I don't think Skydome was supposed to be cookie cutter.

It was built for both baseball and football, so that alone makes it a cookie cutter. A real baseball park is for baseball alone. (Same goes for football.)

The fact that all of the cookie cutters in the US are being replaced is proof enough: Trying to build one stadium for both sports is inefficient and unworkable. The dimensions of the fields are just too different. A stadium built for both baseball and football is good for neither sport; whichever one you happen to be using at the time, some of the seats will be at crappy viewing angles.

Plus, cookie cutters are ugly pieces of crap in general. Go ahead, look at some of the old ones like RFK (which unfortunately still exists), Fulton County, Three Rivers, the Vet, etc. Ugly, concrete 60's/70's monstrosities.
 
Trying to build one stadium for both sports is inefficient and unworkable. The dimensions of the fields are just too different. A stadium built for both baseball and football is good for neither sport; whichever one you happen to be using at the time, some of the seats will be at crappy viewing angles.
I don't know. I think it would have been interesting to see football in Yankee Stadium or Wrigley Field back in the day. (Wrigley still holds the record for most professional football games played, though I think the Meadowlands is finally going to overtake Wrigley in the next year or two.) And the Polo Grounds, which was built for baseball, had dimensions that were better suited for football. (I love playing in the Polo Grounds in baseball video games. There's a mystique to it, but it's also a challenge to drive the ball in that park.)

I like a nice stadium as much as the next guy, but I think some of them have gotten a little too gimicky to outdo the one before it. Like that ridiculous hill in center field in whatever Houston's stadium is called these days.
I think the train there is silly, but the hill is meant as a throwback to Cincinnati's old Crosley Field. Which had a sloping hill in the outfield. I believe it was Sports Illustrated that called Houston's park a "field of screams."

One day I'll head out to Pittsburgh and take in a game at PNC Park. It's reputedly the best of the new stadiums, and the view of downtown Pittsburgh is fantastic.
 
Plus, cookie cutters are ugly pieces of crap in general. Go ahead, look at some of the old ones like RFK (which unfortunately still exists), Fulton County, Three Rivers, the Vet, etc. Ugly, concrete 60's/70's monstrosities.

I think that alone may explain why there is no real movement to replace Skydome yet. All of the other cookie-cutters being replaced are ~40 years old now - Skydome was built in the late 80s and is only 20 years old. It's hard to come up with the money, or especially convince the city/province to kick in tax dollars, to replace a stadium that was essentially just built.

-MEC
 
It's hard to come up with the money

I would hope that's the reason that Skydome is still used (for baseball, anyway). I would hate to think that the Blue Jays actually *like* playing in a place like that.

As for Yankee Stadium and Wrigley: That's different. Those places weren't *built* for both baseball and football. You can slap a removable extra set of stands onto a place like Wrigley, but that doesn't make it a cookie cutter. (Shea, OTOH, is one, because it was built for both sports. And thank God it's going down.)
 
I think I disagree with some of your premises, Baba. For one thing, I'm not sure I would even consider Skydome a "cookie cutter stadium." I had thought that that term referred to a bunch of multipurpose stadiums that were built around the same time (the early 1970s) and looked very much the same; they were even all round as if they were cookies made from the same cutter. I'm thinking of Three Rivers Stadium in Pittsburgh, Riverfront Stadium in Cincinnati, Busch Stadium II in St. Louis before it was renovated, Veterans Stadium in Philadelphia, and probably some others I'm forgetting "Concrete doughnuts" and "giant ashtrays" are other loving names given to these stadiums.

I don't think the fact that football and baseball are both played in the same stadium is enough by itself to make a stadium a "cookie cutter." The Skydome in Toronto is from a significantly later era, having opened in 1989. It's also set apart by being the first stadium with a working retractable roof. (I'm sure it's not as nice as the newer ones, but that usually comes with being the first.)

Anyway, that's how I was used to thinking of the term "cookie cutter stadium." Maybe I'm off-base there.

Also, I'd like to defend the noble cookie cutter stadium from some of the scorn you're dumping on it. :) You say that "Trying to build one stadium for both sports (baseball and football) is inefficient and unworkable." I understand that that's the view of most now, but it wasn't always so. The multi-purpose stadium was a logical step in the development of sports venues.

At first, baseball was America's pastime, and pro football was little more than a sideshow. It could be played wherever there was a flat surface, and baseball fields would do fine, because, more often than not, the crowds weren't big enough to force people to sit where they couldn't see the game.


But football steadily gained popularity, and when baseball stadiums like Forbes or Crosley started wearing out after 50 years or so of use, cities started giving thought to building stadiums that would be suited (as much as possible) for the viewing of both sports. The only alternative would have been to build two stadiums at once-- and while that's what cities do now (Pittsburgh and Cincinnati both did), I don't think it would have worked financially in the 1970s.

Arguably, they had their priorities more in order then. Now, some owners feel entitled to demand that taxpayers fund a costly new building or renovation of an existing facility just over 10 years after it was last renovated-- and take the team elsewhere if the city doesn't buckle to his demands. This is what is happening right now in the NBA to the Seattle Supersonics.

Speaking as someone from Pittsburgh, I am happy that the city built Heinz Field and PNC Park, so we can finally have a beautiful baseball stadium again. (I don't think a football stadium needs to be pretty, but a new one is nice.) I sincerely hope that the Pirates and Steelers get their full use out of those buildings for at least another 30 years and don't try to pull what the NBA is letting the owner of the Sonics get away with.

But I'm also glad for the 30 years of use we got out of Three Rivers Stadium. And considering that it was home to six championship teams, I still remember it quite fondly, no matter how ugly others might have found it. :)
 
As for Yankee Stadium and Wrigley: That's different. Those places weren't *built* for both baseball and football. You can slap a removable extra set of stands onto a place like Wrigley, but that doesn't make it a cookie cutter. (Shea, OTOH, is one, because it was built for both sports. And thank God it's going down.)


If you're going to use that as a defiinition, then you also have to exclude the Big A and Candlestick. These are both baseball only parks that were eventually enclosed for football.
 
The more important question is: Will they ever bring back the urinal troughs in these new non-cookiecutter stadiums? Anyone who's ever been to Wrigley Field knows what I'm talking about.

Like others here, I also don't consider the Skydome to be a cookiecutter stadium. Those monstrosities like Three Rivers, Veterans and Riverfront were the first thing that popped into my head when it comes to cookiecutter stadiums; the Skydome was innovative enough that it shouldn't even be considered in the same breath as those disasters.
 
If you're going to use that as a defiinition, then you also have to exclude the Big A and Candlestick. These are both baseball only parks that were eventually enclosed for football.

Candlestick used to be baseball only? I had no idea. It's such an ugly shitpile that I thought it must be a cookie cutter. I mean, look at it; does that look like it was ever a real baseball park to you? I thought not. ;)

As for Angel Stadium? I honestly had no idea about that one either. For the opposite reason, though: It looks too good to be a multipurpose thing. It really does look like a real (i.e. baseball-only) park. You could never tell it once had football. I will give them props on that.
 
When the Giants moved to town in 1958, the 49ers were playing in Kezar Stadium. The Stick opened in 1961 with the Giants as the sole tenants. 49ers moved in in 1971.

The Big A opened as the home of the Angels in 1966. The Rams moved in in 1980. And, I agree that they did an excellent job in reconverting the Big A to a baseball only park. They probably could have done the same thing for the Stick, but there it was the Giants that moved out instead of the 49ers, and even before it was enclosed it was known that it was a horrible baseball park (studies showed that it should have been built a couple hundred yards from where it was to reduce wind and temp problems).

You might also find it interesting to read about Cleveland Municipal Stadium (aka The Mistake by the Lake), which if I am not mistaken, is the first of the multipurpose stadiums. But also note that it is NOT a cookie-cutter. I think that term came about after Three Rivers, the Vet, Riverfront, Busch, the Big O, and RFK opened.

"When I'm at bat, I can't tell whether I'm in Cincinnati, Philly, or St. Louis." - Richie Hebner.
 
Oh god Exhibition Stadium, that place was a dump. The only place I can think of where you can get seats in center field, and be facing the first base stands beyond the foul pole. Although Exhibition Stadium was actually first that long outfield grandstand, they added the rest when the Blue Jays came in, that was more of a retrofit job than anything, but yeah, if anyone complains about the SkyDome being outdated, be freaking grateful.

As for the ConDome (as I like to call it for numerous reasons), I was actually there for a college bowl game in January (yeah, two American colleges playing American College Football in Canada, go figure). The stadium was made to be able to play both baseball and CANADIAN football, so the stadium really wasn't set up well for American Football (which it shouldn't be, considering that the American version isn't played there, or considering events now, wasnt). I had seats in the 200 level which people said were actually BETTER than the 100 level seats, due to the incline. I wonder how this is going to work out now that the Bills will be playing there once a year.
 
Last edited:
My wife just called to tell me she is going to the Jays game there tonight. I'm super jealous.
 
A couple of years ago, when Rogers Communications bought the SkyDome, they did some major upgrades - new field turf, new scoreboards, etc... Seeing as Rogers also owns the Blue Jays, and thus don't have to pay any rent or any other fees to play there, I don't see them moving/building a new stadium in the near future...
 
Oh god Exhibition Stadium, that place was a dump. The only place I can think of where you can get seats in center field, and be facing the first base stands beyond the foul pole. Although Exhibition Stadium was actually first that long outfield grandstand, they added the rest when the Blue Jays came in, that was more of a retrofit job than anything, but yeah, if anyone complains about the SkyDome being outdated, be freaking grateful.

Yeah, there were actually a few seats in center field which were not only facing the wrong way, but were nearly 700 feet from home plate to boot! I'm kind of sorry I wasn't really around for the Ex, it would have been... interesting, to see a game there. :lol:

Anyway, as a Jays fan, I've obviously been to the Dome quite a bit, and I think it's a much better stadium than you consider it to be. The sight lines are generally excellent, and since Rogers purchased the stadium it's received a nice facelift, a process that's still ongoing. Additionally, the roof is damn cool, seeing that much metal swinging above your head is a pretty incredible sight. It's also a pretty iconic part of Toronto's urban landscape, especially paired with the CN Tower like it is.

I've also seen a few football games there, and I have to say that it's very well laid out for both football and baseball. While it is something that's tough to do right, they definitely managed it with SkyDome.

Baseball, mid-100 level:

09182005-721620.jpg


Football, roughly the same location, looking towards "home plate":

169364495_cf2d4c2547_b.jpg
 
^That's cool. I have been to dozens of games at the Skydome (Hate the Rogers Centre name change) since it opened in 1989. However, I've never caught an Argos game there.

I remember going to the first ever double header in the Skydome (the first of only two ever). It was an awesome day. The really neat part of it was that Tom Henke won both games out of relief and Duane Ward saved both games...:techman:

Ah, the glory years of the Jays, '84 to '93. Now that was excitement!
 
Everytime I think of that place all I can remember is the people who were caught boinking in the hotel dring the game...
 
^That's cool. I have been to dozens of games at the Skydome (Hate the Rogers Centre name change) since it opened in 1989. However, I've never caught an Argos game there.

I remember going to the first ever double header in the Skydome (the first of only two ever). It was an awesome day. The really neat part of it was that Tom Henke won both games out of relief and Duane Ward saved both games...

Yeah, I hate the new name, too. I'll never understand why they couldn't have just called it Rogers SkyDome or something like that. I'd personally be happy with a name like that, but...

And I've had the "privilege" of being at one of the few rain delays to ever happen at SkyDome. This was back when they still had the Astroturf in, so I got to be amused by the ground crew squeegeeing off the field.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top