Actually, it's both at least as far as the Gorn are concerned. There is no way to say that the one featured from Arena is the same species as the one from In a Mirror, Darkly.
Will Khan Still be From the 1990s?
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Actually, it's both at least as far as the Gorn are concerned. There is no way to say that the one featured from Arena is the same species as the one from In a Mirror, Darkly.
I shouldn't even bother asking because I already know the answer, but why can't they just retcon?
Or the Gorn simply have a lot of diversity in their look. (They said it was a Gorn both times, so therefore both are Gorn.)
It's not only the look but the characteristics. One stands upright like a human, the other closely resembles the velociraptor from Jurassic Park. One is very slow and deliberate in its movements, the other is lightening quick.
I'll have the comfy chair, thank you.
They couldn't retcon because Abrams wanted Nimoy in the movie, playing the same character he played in the '60's series.
What does that have to do with anything?
Exactly.
There's no way in the world that -- if we see the Botany Bay -- should it look exactly like it did in Space Seed. This is a film made in 2013. They're allowed to make the sets look like a movie made in 2013.
For a fan to say "but Nero should have had no effect on Khan while he was sleeping, so the sets should be the same as from the 1960s TV show" is just being closed-minded about what a movie is supposed to be.
A retcon is when a new version of a story is told that is only based on a previous version. If ST '09 was a true retcon, then Kirk, Spock, et. al would have had nothing to do with the '60's show, just like Tim Burton's and Christopher Nolan's Batman movies have nothing to do with the '60's Batman TV series.
But because Nimoy was playing the same character he played in the series, it logically couldn't be a retcon.
A retcon is any retroactive revision to any pre established fictional facts (continuity).
It is meant as a writers' tool of convince. He or she can change an old fact to promote a theme or plot.
If it is established in season 2 that Spock's favorite food is pizza and the big evil of season 3 turns out to be the Cookiemonster, the writer might retcon Spock's favorite food to cookies in order to create tension.
It is meant as a writers' tool of convince. He or she can change an old fact to promote a theme or plot.
If it is established in season 2 that Spock's favorite food is pizza and the big evil of season 3 turns out to be the Cookiemonster, the writer might retcon Spock's favorite food to cookies in order to create tension.
The Eugenics Wars happened in the 90s. The Star Trek timeline is separate from our time line with a point of divergence of September 8, 1966, when ST:TOS debuted.
But I really don't care what dates they use in the new movie (though, I seriously doubt the movie will have anything to do with Khan or the Eugenics Wars) because I really don't have a problem with the idea that this particular reality existed prior to the Kelvin, separate and parallel to the Prime universe. I'd have been fine with a reboot.
If everything was identical up until the Narada arrived, I wonder what happens if NuKirk takes the Enterprise back to 2063 and beams over to the E-E just prior to them going back to the 24th Century (other than giving Braxton an anneurism).
But I really don't care what dates they use in the new movie (though, I seriously doubt the movie will have anything to do with Khan or the Eugenics Wars) because I really don't have a problem with the idea that this particular reality existed prior to the Kelvin, separate and parallel to the Prime universe. I'd have been fine with a reboot.
If everything was identical up until the Narada arrived, I wonder what happens if NuKirk takes the Enterprise back to 2063 and beams over to the E-E just prior to them going back to the 24th Century (other than giving Braxton an anneurism).
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The point I was trying to make is that the movie is supposed to take place in the same universe as the show (or at least until the timeline changes), and in order for that to happen, Nimoy's TOS Spock was needed. If it was a full retcon, he wouldn't have been necessary.
I think you're still confused about the definition of a retcon.
Yeah, it's basically a made-up word. Someone took me to task in another thread for referring to nuWho as a reboot. Reboot may originally have meant a brand new take on existing material, or a complete start over, like Casino Royale or Batman Begins. But now it's basically come to be used to mean any revival of a property. I don't think it pays to get too hung up on these kinds of terms.
And they never showed have allowed Paramount to drop their option on Kirstie Alley's contract to play Saavik in ST III and IV. And Glenn Corbett should have been brought back from the dead to play Zefram Cochrane. And Adrienne Barbeau should have been forced to have facial surgery and breast reduction to better resemble Megan Cole as DS9's Senator Kimara Cretak.
Where does it all end!
FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE GETS IT!!!
I have been saying for a while that, while Nero created the new timeline branching around Kirk's birth, because people from Trek's future are always traveling to, interacting with, and maybe even altering their own past, the changes in the timeline would have HAD to go BACKWARDS as well as forewords!!!!
Otherwise, nuTrek's past would contain many visitors from a future that no longer exists in that time stream - at least not in exactly the same way. And since we *have* time travel and past-present-future all interacting, we even have one (of probably several) mechanisms for why the past of nuTrek would differ in ways from the past of TOS-based Trek!
People think of the timeline branching out from the Kelvin incident like a Y in shape...but really, think of it more like an X...
Otherwise, nuTrek's past would have been visited by people like TOS Kirk and Spock, TNG's crew, Voyager and some DS9's crews. People who may not even *exist* in the new timeline's future. Though, I suspect that in nuTrek's future, people like Picard probably will exist - just because it is Star Trek, and we expect some things to still exist (maybe "the timeline is trying to repair itself" or some technobabble explanation so some things are similar) but they will be different people with different lives in many ways. Like, maybe Starfleet's interaction with the Borg happened differently...earlier, later, or not at all. And maybe something *similar* to the events of "First Contact" happened - but with and alt-Picard or someone else entirely - or maybe in this new reality Zef and Lilly did it all on their own (*again*) no Borg or future visitors needed.
Heck, there would be good reason who some of the time travel stories in TOS, TNG, etc never even happened at all in the new reality!
Like I said, there will be similarities (a Kirk, a Spock, and Enterprise, a Kahn)...but there will be many differences too - even in the past.
Thank You Bryce, I never understood the claim that the time changes could go backwards as well, no one's ever annunciated in that way that I've seen. Now, I understand that future incursions further into the past than JJTrek, could be as altering as Nero, if their past (JJTrek Future) was changed by NuKirk et al. 
So, yea, anything goes then, even if we find out ENT is canonically Violated in the NUmovies. Speaking of Billions of Years, Picard may now have stepped on a butterfly when Q took him back to the Primordial ooze in this NuTimeline or maybe he took a different handful of ooze and it now developed differently. Of course, the Universe, should correct itself, but, once you monkey with time, anything could happen.
So, yea, anything goes then, even if we find out ENT is canonically Violated in the NUmovies. Speaking of Billions of Years, Picard may now have stepped on a butterfly when Q took him back to the Primordial ooze in this NuTimeline or maybe he took a different handful of ooze and it now developed differently. Of course, the Universe, should correct itself, but, once you monkey with time, anything could happen.
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The branching multiverse share a past. Picard and Kirk Prime's time travels all still happen, and theoretically if nuKirk and nuSpock went back to 1984, they'd bump into their alternate selves trying to save the whales in San Fransisco. They'd still meet Riker and Picard in Montana in 2063 (although in each case of doing so, simply create another branch of history, Source Code style)
Things like "X has to happen before Y" are meaningless, because time isn't linear, only our limited perception of it is. Just ask the wormhole aliens!
Thus, no paradoxes, and a big branching tree of timelines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation
Things like "X has to happen before Y" are meaningless, because time isn't linear, only our limited perception of it is. Just ask the wormhole aliens!
Thus, no paradoxes, and a big branching tree of timelines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation
