Will CBS All Access Remain Viable in the Streaming Wars?

[The Overlord]

Mostly a done deal still isn't a done deal.




And if Viacom shows were on CBS All Access, they might still chose HBOMax, because of Game of Thrones, or Friends, or The Big Bang Theory. There's no guarantee that anyone will pick any streaming service. And so what if Netflix has the kids market? One - so does Disney+, with everything Disney, and HBOMax, with Sesame Street. And two - you know there's a lot of people who don't have kids, right? Or at least not young ones. They'll be looking for more grown-up fare, and what do you know, CBS All Access has that!

And HBO doesn't have stuff aimed at adults or Netflix or anyone besides Disney plus? Getting the kids market is huge, it means you get consumers from a young age and the family market, saying CBS doesn't need is pretty silly if it's not important, why these companies invest so much in it? You guys say we trust CBS has a plan here, but how is their plan better than the other player's plans who are doing things to capture markets that CBS seems to put no effort into?

I am not saying Viacom content would be a silver bullet that would get everyone, but it would up their chances of getting more consumers.

You can't use the whole ''CBS is for adults'' when HBO has premium content for adults and CBS doesn't and I think ignoring the kids market completely is a huge mistake for a streaming service, that is a demographic you want to ignore and ''CBS is for adults'' argument does not work, when HBO and Netflix can put adult and kids content on their streaming service. Its only an argument you could use against Disney Plus not the other streaming services.

 

[fireproof78]

Except people can just ditch a service and not pick it up again unless it can add a lot of new content from somewhere or really innovates somehow. You do realize there a ton of failed streaming services, correct?

Yup. I would expect it.

You are one who constantly calls CBS conservative, your description of them makes them seem like some old out of touch dinosaur that can't decide either it wants a service that targets a niche or wants to engage in a mass appeal campaign as Disney does or an actual targeted campaign. You make it seem like their plans are incoherent. No offense, but that is the vibe you are presenting for them.

I don't know their plans. How in the world could I do that? They very well could be a dinosaur, and if so, goodbye. That's the nature of the thing.

And frankly I think you are trying to strawman my arguments, I just want Star Trek to be run that truly innovates, rather then a company that is so conservative that it seems like it just to take its old business model and putting it online, rather than actually being truly creative and innovative, I think that is a fair criticism.

You are absolutely correct-that is a fair criticism.

No, I'm not trying to strawman your argument. I am trying to understand your POV, and I think we have unveiled an interesting part. It's not the fear of Trek being canceled. It's Trek lacking innovation, of becoming irrelevant. That it is no longer truly creative.

It is all so incredibly fascinating.

 

[BillJ]

I don't think you are acknowledging one main point, you insist that CBS had a targeted strategy, not a mass appeal one.

A targeted strategy that seems to be working for them at the moment. Whether it is sustainable long term is anyone's guess. But it is up to CBS to decide if it is meeting the economic/business goals they are setting for it.

Well, I think Mandalorians will have a bigger audience then Discovery because it is on a bigger platform. I would rather Star Trek have the biggest audience it could possibly have.

The Mandalorian would have a bigger audience than Discovery if it was on All-Access (or if Discovery was on Disney+). Star Wars content has simply always been more popular than Trek.

And HBO doesn't have stuff aimed at adults or Netflix or anyone besides Disney plus?

CBS doesn't seem overly concerned with attracting children to their service. Which is why one of the animated shows (aimed at youngsters) is headed to Nickelodeon.

CBS doesn't seem to have the shuttering all of their other platforms as part of their All-Access strategy. They still have commercial concerns, and commitments to OTA affiliates and cable companies. If they pull SpongeBob Squarepants from Nickelodeon, they are weakening that platform. They are making Nickeldeon less valuable to cable companies that pay by the subscriber, it would also damage advertising revenue for the channel.

CBS has their feet planted in multiple content delivery systems, and don't seem interested in selling them all upstream for All-Access.

 

[The Overlord]

A targeted strategy that seems to be working for them at the moment. Whether it is sustainable long term is anyone's guess. But it is up to CBS to decide if it is meeting the economic/business goals they are setting for it.

And who's the target exactly? Shudder targets horror fans, Crunchy Roll targets anime fans, what target does CBS All Access target that could not be met by the ABC or NBC library of content that will appear on streaming services owned by Disney and Universal?

The Mandalorian would have a bigger audience than Discovery if it was on All-Access (or if Discovery was on Disney+). Star Wars content has simply always been more popular than Trek.

Fair enough, I still Discovery would get more eyeballs if it was on a more popular streaming site.

CBS doesn't seem overly concerned with attracting children to their service. Which is why one of the animated shows (aimed at youngsters) is headed to Nickelodeon.

CBS doesn't seem to have the shuttering all of their other platforms as part of their All-Access strategy. They still have commercial concerns, and commitments to OTA affiliates and cable companies. If they pull SpongeBob Squarepants from Nickelodeon, they are weakening that platform. They are making Nickeldeon less valuable to cable companies that pay by the subscriber, it would also damage advertising revenue for the channel.

CBS has their feet planted in multiple content delivery systems, and don't seem interested in selling them all upstream for All-Access.

Except for fact Nickloedeon is putting its stuff on Netflix, so clearly Viacom has decided they can't just keep on propping their dying cable channels forever, heck Viacom not embracing the digital world for a long time is why they were such sorry straights and all your descriptions of CBS makes it seem like they are repeating Viacom's mistakes here.

And the fact that CBS is not putting its best effort forward in the streaming world due to wanting to prop their tradition TV outlets makes them seem like they are run by old, out of touch dinosaurs. Other companies are betting on streaming over traditional TV, because TV is dying, trying to prop it will not work in the long term:

https://psychcentral.com/blog/the-death-of-tv-5-reasons-people-are-fleeing-traditional-tv/

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/062315/5-reasons-cable-tv-industry-dying.asp

Do you honestly think traditional TV is going to make major come back within 2 decades? Because everything points to TV going the way of the VCR is the long run, so why is delaying a full effort in the new digital world to prop up a dying business model? I know CBS audience is generally old and more likely to stick with traditional TV over streaming, but the sad fact is, that viewer base will not be around forever and the younger viewers will not care about these traditional TV outlets CBS wants to protect, their days are numbered. You make CBS All Access sound like a half-assed venture because CBS is unwilling to change its business model to adapt to the times, rather than a bold attempt of making a mark in the streaming world.

Really CBS is too small to be this conservative. Star Trek is supposed to be about innovation and CBS seems to bring no real creative risks to this streaming platform, they didn't have exclusive rights to the CBS library, they only have a couple of new shows, all based on existing properties. How is this not half-assed? You can say they are investing into CBS All Access, but so what, everyone is going to invest in their platforms and other players are investing more money then CBS.

It seems to me Star Trek is being used to prop a half-assed streaming service run by out of touch dinosaurs who seem to want to change as a little as possible in an entertainment landscape that is dramatically shifting quickly. Star Trek was used to prop up UPN, how did that work out?

Yup. I would expect it.

I don't know their plans. How in the world could I do that? They very well could be a dinosaur, and if so, goodbye. That's the nature of the thing.

You are absolutely correct-that is a fair criticism.

No, I'm not trying to strawman your argument. I am trying to understand your POV, and I think we have unveiled an interesting part. It's not the fear of Trek being canceled. It's Trek lacking innovation, of becoming irrelevant. That it is no longer truly creative.

It is all so incredibly fascinating.

I think Star Trek being tied to a second-tier streaming site, means it will never have the popularity it once had when it was on syndication.

I think the market is more fragmented now than back then, but if Star Trek was on a popular streaming service, that got more views, more people who wouldn't have discovered it may come across it on Netflix while looking for Stranger Things.

With CBS All Access, you just have hope to there are a ton of NCIS/Survivor fans who will get CBS All Access and find Star Trek and like it

Frankly, in terms of reaching a wider audience, I would put more hope in the upcoming Nickelodeon cartoon over the stuff on CBS All Access (even though I am looking forward to the Picard series).

The President of WB does not think this level fragment can last forever and I think he is right:

https://www.vox.com/recode/2019/11/...-bundle-john-stankey-warnermedia-cord-cutting

I think in the long run, CBS will have to join up with someone else, the market can't handle everyone and their brother has a streaming service.

 

[BillJ]

And who's the target exactly? Shudder targets horror fans, Crunchy Roll targets anime fans, what target does CBS All Access target that could not be met by the ABC or NBC library of content that will appear on streaming services owned by Disney and Universal?

Wait a minute? Weren't you just going on about how all of Disney owned stuff was going to be on a single platform?

Except for fact Nickloedeon is putting its stuff on Netflix, so clearly Viacom has decided they can't just keep on propping their dying cable channels forever, heck Viacom not embracing the digital world for a long time is why they were such sorry straights and all your descriptions of CBS makes it seem like they are repeating Viacom's mistakes here.

There has been a long term relationship between Viacom and Netflix, going back to when streaming was a relatively new concept.

Do you honestly think traditional TV is going to make major come back within 2 decades? Because everything points to TV going the way of the VCR is the long run, so why is delaying a full effort in the new digital world to prop up a dying business model?

Traditional TV is dying. At the same time, CBS isn't going to ignore a platform it is clearly making money from.

Star Trek is supposed to be about innovation...

Star Trek has always been about making money. Nothing more, nothing less. Roddenberry wasn't doing this stuff for free.

It seems to me Star Trek is being used to prop a half-assed streaming service run by out of touch dinosaurs who seem to want to change as a little as possible in an entertainment landscape that is dramatically shifting quickly. Star Trek was used to prop up UPN, how did that work out?

UPN didn't die until after it got rid of Trek. Trek ran for 11 years there, pretty good run for any TV series.

I think Star Trek being tied to a second-tier streaming site, means it will never have the popularity it once had when it was on syndication.

It will never have that popularity again, period. Market is very different now.

I think in the long run, CBS will have to join up with someone else, the market can't handle everyone and their brother has a streaming service.

See, that is a fallacy. We don't yet know what the market can handle. The President of WB doesn't think this level of fragmentation can last, all the while getting ready to jump head first into streaming, contributing to that fragmentation.

All I know is that Walmart and Kroger (I have four of these within close proximity) are the big grocery players in my market, offering pretty much every major product one would really want. Yet there is still room for Aldi's, Fresh Thyme and other smaller stores.

The market will dictate who is in and out. But I wouldn't count out CBS and other smaller providers just yet, the day is still young.

 

[The Overlord]

Wait a minute? Weren't you just going on about how all of Disney owned stuff was going to be on a single platform?

Yeah, ABC's library of content is going in the Disney plus/Hulu/ESPN bundle. Disney is not trying to use ABC's library on its own to sell a streaming service.

You keep on saying CBS All Access has a targeted approach vs. a mass appeal one, but what does CBS library of content

Heck answer me this, does CBS All Access have exclusive streaming rights to their library of shows? Can I get NCIS somewhere else? Because it seems like I can:

https://decider.com/show/ncis/

So CBS All Access does not even have the exclusive rights to their own shows and the only thing that makes CBS All Access has is 2 or 3 new shows. If the selling point is CBS's library of content, then why is CBS content streaming elsewhere?

Something like Shudder fills a niche better than CBS All Access does. What is the niche CBS All Access fills that no one else does?

There has been a long term relationship between Viacom and Netflix, going back to when streaming was a relatively new concept.

So that means that stuff that could appeal to kids is on Netflix, instead of CBS All Access.

Do you really think the kid's market is an unimportant demographic to reach in the streaming wars?

Traditional TV is dying. At the same time, CBS isn't going to ignore a platform it is clearly making money from.

And other companies are seeing the writing on the wall and want to make this leap is a far more daring manner then CBS does. Trying to maintain the VCR market was a losing strategy in the long run. Viacom was disdainful of digital and they declined a lot because of it, trying to breathe life in a dying business model means CBS is letting the other players get a head start over them.

Blockbuster stuck to its traditional business model in the face of digital

Star Trek has always been about making money. Nothing more, nothing less. Roddenberry wasn't doing this stuff for free.

Sure, but is putting an outdated network channel model online is not a good money-making plan, thinking nothing has changed while going from traditional TV to digital is an out of touch strategy,

UPN didn't die until after it got rid of Trek. Trek ran for 11 years there, pretty good run for any TV series.

It still died and Star Trek on its own was not enough to maintain it, otherwise, it would still be here today.

It will never have that popularity again, period. Market is very different now.



See, that is a fallacy. We don't yet know what the market can handle. The President of WB doesn't think this level of fragmentation can last, all the while getting ready to jump head first into streaming, contributing to that fragmentation.

All I know is that Walmart and Kroger (I have four of these within close proximity) are the big grocery players in my market, offering pretty much every major product one would really want. Yet there is still room for Aldi's, Fresh Thyme and other smaller stores.

The market will dictate who is in and out. But I wouldn't count out CBS and other smaller providers just yet, the day is still young.

But you need an actual good strategy to thrive in the streaming wars because a lot of people will not shell out for all these services. What is the actual strategy here?

So with CBS All Access there are no movies, almost no stuff for kids, no premium cable content and they do not exclusive rights to the CBS library. So what is their selling point, Star Trek and 2 other new shows that remakes or spinoffs of existing shows?

You guys keep on saying ''we should assume that CBS knows what they are doing'', why should we make that assumption, there are tons of screw-ups from entertainment companies I can point to in the last couple of years alone, these companies do not always know what they are doing.

 

[BillJ]

This is tedious as all get out.

You guys keep on saying ''we should assume that CBS knows what they are doing''...

No. It is my opinion that CBS has their money to spend and it is up to them to spend it. Can All-Access fail? Absolutely. Could they be bought out tomorrow by a bigger player? Absolutely. Can it succeed? Absolutely. Right now, according to CBS Security and Exchange Commission (SEC) filings, it is.

It is ludicrous that we are here arguing this. We see smaller players fail and succeed all the time in the business world. Tesla has slowly become a player in the automotive world, on the back of one type of vehicle, a very niche player when they started. The square peg you keep trying to ram into a round hole is that because of what All-Access is right now, that is all it will ever be. That no growth is possible. That is where we part ways.

Peace.

 

[The Overlord]

This is tedious as all get out.



No. It is my opinion that CBS has their money to spend and it is up to them to spend it. Can All-Access fail? Absolutely. Could they be bought out tomorrow by a bigger player? Absolutely. Can it succeed? Absolutely. Right now, according to CBS Security and Exchange Commission (SEC) filings, it is.

It is ludicrous that we are here arguing this. We see smaller players fail and succeed all the time in the business world. Tesla has slowly become a player in the automotive world, on the back of one type of vehicle, a very niche player when they started. The square peg you keep trying to ram into a round hole is that because of what All-Access is right now, that is all it will ever be. That no growth is possible. That is where we part ways.

Peace.

Fair enough, I do not mind agreeing to disagree after a certain point if we are arguing in circles.

 

[Mudd]

No.

 

[eschaton]

So, I was curious, and looked at CBS All Access's entire list of original programming. It does seem increasingly Trek/Spec fic dependent.

Star Trek:
Two current (Discovery, Short Treks)
Two upcoming (Picard, Lower Decks)
One potential (Section 31)

Other SF/Fantasy:
One current (Twilight Zone)
Two upcoming (Man Who Fell to Earth, The Stand)

Other shows:
Five current (The Good Fight, Strange Angel, No Activity, Why Women Kill, Tell Me a Story)
One upcoming (Interrogation)
Three potential (Muhammad Ali series, Girls With Guns, You're Killing Me)

Including everything, that makes eight current/prospective SF/fantasy shows, and nine of everything else. And Strange Angel has yet to be renewed, so it might end up having basically 50% speculative fiction content.

 

[The Overlord]

Now see this is a step in the right direction:

http://nickalive.blogspot.com/2019/11/cbs-all-access-launches-childrens.html

I think every streaming service will need a children's section to attract a wider fan base.

Big question though, will Nickelodeon content be on Netflix and CBS All Access? Who is going have the bigger back library of content from Nickelodeon? Who is going to get the new content from Nickelodeon?

They also seem to be buying children's content from other English speaking countries, some stuff from the UK (Danger Mouse) and a lot of content from Canada. They are getting content from a company called WildBrain:

http://nickalive.blogspot.com/2019/11/cbs-all-access-launches-childrens.html

Besides their new shows like Star Trek Discovery, Picard and Twilight Zone, what exclusives do they have?

 

[JD]

I had to stop by this thread when I saw the news about the Nick stuff coming to CBS AA. I'm glad they are going to start expanding beyond just the CBS network shows. Hopefully this will continue and include other Viacom channels.

 

[Mudd]

With their current programming strategy they won't last long.

 

[fireproof78]

Bye-bye CBS.

Bye-bye Star Trek.

 

[The Overlord]

Bye-bye CBS.

Bye-bye Star Trek.

I know you are being glib be here, but there is an easy fix for this, CBS/Viacom should have a united strategy when it comes to streaming, either put the effort behind CBS All Access or sell their stuff to other platforms, trying to do both will not work, because one plan will cannibalize the other. I think the more exclusives you have, the better, certainly other platforms are making that gamble.

So is the old Nickelodeon stuff go to CBS, while newer stuff goes to Netflix? Will everything from Nickelodeon go on both? I do not think Viacom has given the farm away yet, they have pick a side though.

This is a step in the right direction though, its something I said they should be doing. At least they are doing something to take advantage of this merger, I do think putting more Viacom content on there will only be beneficial to them. Heck, maybe some good stuff from Wildbrain for kids. Growing up in Canada, Canadian content for kids is very hit or miss, while most stuff aimed at adults is usually bad.

Does MTV make anything worthwhile nowadays? I certainly liked some of their animated series, Beavis and Butthead, the Maxx, the Head, Æon Flux, etc. Brining back Liquid Television. I think weird stuff like that is more interesting then Survivor reruns, IMO.

 

[fireproof78]

I know you are being glib be here, but there is an easy fix for this,

Easy as far as you know. Which, we don't.

That's why I'm just being glib at this point The merger isn't complete, which means contracts might still be under obligation until things complete.

So, I will simply skip right to the good part and celebrate CBS' and Trek's ultimate demise.

 

[The Overlord]

Easy as far as you know. Which, we don't.

That's why I'm just being glib at this point The merger isn't complete, which means contracts might still be under obligation until things complete.

So, I will simply skip right to the good part and celebrate CBS' and Trek's ultimate demise.

One can criticize a media strategy without wanting it to fail.

The fact is they are putting Nickelodeon content on CBS All Access means Viacom can put content on CBS All Access if they chose to, it may not be exclusive, but it's something.

Some people may like CBS' content, but other people would be interested in the Viacom content.

WB may have agreed to put Arrowverse shows on Netflix, but that deal will end eventually and that stuff will go to a WB based streaming service. Disney had a deal with Netflix, but eventually decided to start their own streaming service, there may be some Disney/Fox content on Netflix, but that stuff is going back Disney when those deals end.

So will CBS/Viacom going to eventually move all their stuff exclusively to CBS All Access or will the have very few exclusives on CBS All Access for the foreseeable future?

But hey, this still a step in the right direction and heck, maybe Wildbrain will give them something good for kids. This is the stuff I said they should be doing and they did it, so that's something they are doing right.

I think if you could bring back some of the interesting stuff Viacom did before and out it on CBS All Access, that will only help them, not hurt them IMO.

I think CBS/Viacom hurt themselves by splitting up in the first place, that was the wrong choice made at the wrong time:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thewrap.com/viacom-cbs-sumner-redstone-philippe-dauman/amp/

 

[Lord Garth]

What did Nostadamus have to say about the subject? That's what I want to know.

 

[fireproof78]

One can criticize a media strategy without wanting it to fail.

Please do. I'm just saying we don't have all the information and that if we follow the argument to its logical conclusion then the failure of the model is inevitable.

 

[Lord Garth]

[UPN] still died and Star Trek on its own was not enough to maintain it, otherwise, it would still be here today.

This is a simplification of what actually happened. UPN and WB merged to form CW. CW is still around today and is, ironically enough, owned by CBS.

Toward the end of UPN's run, before the merger, it felt on secure(-ish) enough ground that it could threaten to cancel ENT if the series didn't improve. Otherwise, a shake-up wouldn't have been forced upon them for the third season and Paramount wouldn't have had to negotiate with UPN to get a fourth season, to reach (almost) 100 episodes.

By the '05-'06 Season, UPN had Everybody Hate Chris, America's Next Top Model, Veronica Mars, Girlfriends, and WWE Smackdown all going for it as shows that made the transition from UPN to CW the following year.