Will Before Dishonors Ending Affect Voyager books? Spoilers!

[AuntKate]

I've read most of this thread (as much as I could stomach) and feel compelled to join the ranks of those who are dismayed and frustrated with the direction the post-Voyager story line has taken--apparently in a TNG novel, no less. I wonder what will happen when the Voyager fans, who have waited years for the Voyager relaunch to resume, buy this new book only to discover that their beloved captain was killed off in some previous novel from the TNG relaunch series? Can you imagine killing off Picard in the Voyager relaunch? The situation is ludicrous; if ever there was a reason to stop considering previous novels canon, this is a big one.

Let's step back a bit and review the bidding about women in the Star Trek franchise. After TOS, which treated women as secondary characters, window dressing, and sexual objects, Trek was gradually moving into modern times when TNG arrived with a female security chief and CMO. In TNG and DS9, women were beginning to be used as something other than sex fodder, even though they were almost always dressed in "uniforms" that were skin tight, plunged to their navels, and were otherwise designed to put their female "assets" on display.

For the thousands of female Star Trek fans, who have always been underestimated and underappreciated, IMHO, the change wasn't happening fast enough. We wanted a powerful female lead, and we were thrilled to get Kathryn Janeway in the person of Kate Mulgrew. Whether Janeway was developed "consistently" or not (Kirk certainly wasn't), she was and is an icon to every female interested in science fiction or any kind of post-graduate professional career. Her example is also one reason for Mulgrew's status as one of the best-loved actors at conventions throughout the world.

Janeway is a unique and valuable commodity in Star Trek, even seven years after the series has ended. Countless young girls look at her character as an inspiration for their own futures--as a woman who succeeds in life not by screwing her way to the top but by hard work, intelligence, and dedication. She is a model to youngsters who are still "finding" her in reruns and dvds and a hope to those of us who are in the trenches, still trying to break the glass ceilings and wondering if we will ever be judged by the "content of our character." She is one of the rare female characters to break the mold in the current "entertainment community," a breath of fresh air.

And what does Pocket Books do with this unique and interesting character? Do they explore her potential as a leader? Is she used as a catalyst for change and improvement? Do they aim their Voyager relaunch toward a continued (or perhaps rescued) development of what heights a female Starfleet officer can reach?

Nope. They kill her off. In a TNG book, no less.

Now, you tell me if that's a smart move? I'd say not. And I'd say that failing to use the reset button or some other plot device (no matter how trite or incredible) to return Janeway to life is simply the perpetuation of a huge mistake. Failing to appreciate and utilize a unique character in the franchise makes no sense to me and is, as they say, "a foolish consistency." But that's my opinion.

And, no, I haven't read Peter David's book, nor will I read another Star Trek novel until this incredible blunder is corrected. No apologies offered. Why spend my precious money to subsidize a publisher that doesn't issue books about my favorite series' relaunch and then usurps my favorite characters and uses them to liven up some other flagging relaunch, only to kill the best one off as (what?) some misbegotten way to generate interest? No thanks.

Okay, I'm off my soapbox. Let the games begin.

 

[ATimson]

Why spend my precious money to subsidize a publisher that doesn't issue books about my favorite series' relaunch and then usurps my favorite characters and uses them to liven up some other flagging relaunch, only to kill the best one off as (what?) some misbegotten way to generate interest? No thanks.

They "didn't issue books" in the Voyager relaunch because Christie Golden was busy, and they tried to avoid handing it off to another author. Two Voyager post-finale books are currently scheduled for 2009.

 

[Trent Roman]

Do they aim their Voyager relaunch toward a continued (or perhaps rescued) development of what heights a female Starfleet officer can reach?

Gender is irrelevant in the 24th century, so I don't see what specific interest there would be in the 'heights a female Starfleet officer can reach'. There are no glass ceilings, as high-ranking women like Admiral Nechayev, Admiral Batanides and Admiral Uhura demonstrate (not to mention that there's been an entire book, Articles of the Federation, focusing on a woman who has claimed the top civilian office in the Federation - the Presidency - though as said before, her gender is incidental to the story).

And, no, I haven't read Peter David's book,

I wouldn't recommend it, if you're going to view these events through a feminist lens. While I wouldn't go as far as to say that Janeway in Before Dishonor is a Woman in the Refrigerator, the reduction of her character to passive victim, the callous brutality of her murder, and the fact that the death is (apparently) being used as a plot device to spur development through tragedy for the other characters does bear striking similarities. Particularly since the man who stands to inherit the role of lead character now that Janeway is dead was also the love interest. Come to think of it, I've just convinced myself that she is. Maybe it has something to do with PAD's comic book background.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[William Leisner]

The situation is ludicrous; if ever there was a reason to stop considering previous novels canon, this is a big one.

*headdesk*
*headdesk*
*headdesk*
*headdesk*
*headdesk*
*headdesk*
*headdesk*
*headdesk*
*headdesk*
*headdesk*
*headdesk*

 

[Christopher]

I wonder what will happen when the Voyager fans, who have waited years for the Voyager relaunch to resume, buy this new book only to discover that their beloved captain was killed off in some previous novel from the TNG relaunch series?

If they read Kirsten Beyer's Full Circle (which I've just read the manuscript of) with an open mind, I think they'll be quite impressed by how it's handled.

The situation is ludicrous; if ever there was a reason to stop considering previous novels canon, this is a big one.

No novels are ever canon. Canon, by definition, is the shows and films, the original work. What you're referring to is the book continuity. And whatever you personally may feel about it, the novelists are playing the hand as it's been dealt.

Let's step back a bit and review the bidding about women in the Star Trek franchise.

The bidding about women? Are you talking about a slave auction or something? "Four thousand quatloos for Uhura!"

No disrespect intended -- I just can't for the life of me figure out what you mean by the word "bidding" in this context.

And what does Pocket Books do with this unique and interesting character? Do they explore her potential as a leader? Is she used as a catalyst for change and improvement? Do they aim their Voyager relaunch toward a continued (or perhaps rescued) development of what heights a female Starfleet officer can reach?

Nope. They kill her off. In a TNG book, no less.

Seriously -- you're making this a gender thing? Are you aware that the editor who decided to kill off Janeway is a woman? Are you aware that at least the next two novels in the VGR line are being written by a woman? Are you aware that from Greater Than the Sum onward, the command crew of the Enterprise-E is two-thirds female? Are you aware that there are multiple female captains in current and upcoming novels, including Kira Nerys, Ezri Dax, Erika Hernandez, Atish Khatami, Rana Desai, and Kat Mueller? Not to mention past captains such as Rachel Garrett, Demora Sulu, Elizabeth Shelby, Saavik, and others. And first officers like Sonya Gomez and Christine Vale.

And, no, I haven't read Peter David's book, nor will I read another Star Trek novel until this incredible blunder is corrected.

We'll miss you.

Why spend my precious money to subsidize a publisher that doesn't issue books about my favorite series' relaunch

March 2009: Voyager: Full Circle by Kirsten Beyer.
October 2009: Voyager: (title TBA) by Kirsten Beyer.

And more to follow. The lack of VGR novels over the past few years had nothing to do with the desires of Pocket Books and everything to do with Christie Golden's unavailability. The editors deferred to Golden's schedule for as long as they could, but once it became clear she wasn't likely to come back, they reworked their plans and developed things in a new direction, which took time. The existence of two new novels on next year's schedule should be enough to disprove your pet theory that Pocket somehow has it in for Voyager.

 

[Christopher]

And, no, I haven't read Peter David's book,

I wouldn't recommend it, if you're going to view these events through a feminist lens. While I wouldn't go as far as to say that Janeway in Before Dishonor is a Woman in the Refrigerator, the reduction of her character to passive victim, the callous brutality of her murder, and the fact that the death is (apparently) being used as a plot device to spur development through tragedy for the other characters does bear striking similarities.

Janeway is not a passive victim. Her ability in the climax of the book to reassert her will and hamper the Collective's actions is absolutely crucial to the success of the heroes' plan.

 

[ATimson]

The lack of VGR novels over the past few years had nothing to do with the desires of Pocket Books and everything to do with Christie Golden's unavailability. The editors deferred to Golden's schedule for as long as they could, but once it became clear she wasn't likely to come back, they reworked their plans and developed things in a new direction, which took time.

That's not entirely fair to absolve Pocket of blame, given that most if not all of the interfering work was other non-Trek books for Marco!

 

[ClayinCA]

...who's a man!! See, it is a misogynistic plot!!

 

[Trent Roman]

Janeway is not a passive victim. Her ability in the climax of the book to reassert her will and hamper the Collective's actions is absolutely crucial to the success of the heroes' plan.

You've made that argument before. It was unconvincing then and I don't see that anything has changed to make it convincing now. And entire novel's worth of passive victimization it not outweighed by a brief (not even a page in length) flare more like the echo of a personality than actual sentience.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Marco Palmieri]

Thank goodness then, that They Saved Janeway's Brain!

 

[Christopher]

^^I can see your point. Still, if it hadn't been for that "brief flare" of Janeway's personality, Earth would've been destroyed and the Borg would've won. Make of that what you will.

 

[Dayton Ward]

Thank goodness then, that They Saved Janeway's Brain!

Can I write this story? Pretty please?

 

[Trent Roman]

^^I can see your point. Still, if it hadn't been for that "brief flare" of Janeway's personality, Earth would've been destroyed and the Borg would've won. Make of that what you will.

Granted. But one could say the same for the actions of Picard, Seven, Spock, even Worf and Geordi refusing to relieve their captain of command, or Kadohata coming to her senses in time. It's an ensemble story, as Trek often is, with everybody contributing to the final victory to varying degrees. The contribution of 'Janeway' simply came closer to the endgame. Which doesn't make it invalid, but also doesn't make it unique.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[LightningStorm]

And whatever you personally may feel about it, the novelists are playing the hand as it's been dealt.

I want to stay out of these kinds of debates, because I totally see it from both sides. Both sides are fairly logical to me and can be somewhat "easily explained" except this part.

Because the deck is stacked. We hear, frequently, that the authors write their own stories and are fully responsible for the content therein. And I'm also aware that the editors may inject a few 'long-term' plans into the mix, like this one. So the deck was literally stacked against Janeway in that the decision was made before hand that she'd "die." (Quotes due to the ambiguity of it all.) Similarly PAD is the one responsible for the manner in which it happened. Keeping with the card analogy, he hand picked those cards.

While I would have preferred Janeway not be killed, my complaint about it all isn't the fact that she died but the way it happened, where it happened, and the maddening lack of the rest of the Voyager crew when it happened. Then it was made that much worse by being in a book that lacked in quality IMO.

 

[AuntKate]

"Review the bidding” is a colloquial term that means to go back and see how we arrived at our current position--no money involved. *Where is the Ferenghi smilie when I need it?* Sorry if the phrase isn’t in your vocabulary, Christopher, but it works for me.

I conceded the fact that the number of female characters has increased over the years. My point was that Janeway is the first female lead in Star Trek and that many fans were thrilled with that fact. We enjoy reading about her, were bitterly disappointed that her character was killed in “Before Dishonor,” and had hoped that the next Voyager novel would “correct the mistake.” Naturally, we’ll be even more disappointed if that doesn’t happen.

But then, the way Pocket books has handled the whole Voyager relaunch has been dreadful. Two novels came out in 2003 and two more in 2004. With “Full Circle” scheduled for 2009, we will be left with an inexcusable (IMHO) five-year break. Don’t tell me Christie Golden was busy elsewhere, as if she had sole possession of the “magic Voyager keyboard.” Just concede that another writer should have picked up the storyline years ago and leave it at that. I realize that Star Trek writers are naturally going to defend the editors and sing the party line—they know who offers them contracts—and so I consider the source. I’m not here to buddy up; if they’re making a living by writing, more power to them. Just don’t “pee on my leg and tell me it’s raining.”

I agree with a previous poster that it is a shame that writers are “stuck” with what has occurred in previous novels (even in a different series’ relaunch) and that they have to write to accommodate the next novel down the line. Call it what you want, “canon” or “continuity” (I think we’re parsing here), what works in a trilogy or crossover is a losing proposition in the long haul.

Finally, I have faith that Kristen Beyer will do a decent job on the next Voyager novel within the constraints she’s been given. I’ve read and enjoyed her work in the past, including her contribution to the String Theory trilogy. Maybe someone will let me borrow his/her copy of “Full Circle.”

All of this is IMHO, of course.

BTW, I'm ignoring the labeling of my previous post as "feminist." I am a female and have my point of view, but I'm not playing the gender card, honest. If cornered, could probably come up with a label for other posters' positions, too.

 

[Kirsten Beyer]

Thank goodness then, that They Saved Janeway's Brain!

Shit.

(Once AGAIN begins furiously rewriting Full Circle manuscript.)


Seriously, I have to take issue with a couple of assumptions here, though I'm not going to quote folks directly. One day I'll figure out how to use this multi-quote from different posts thing, I promise.

To reduce the death of Kathryn Janeway to a "plot device" is completely inappropriate. It is my personal belief that the Star Trek universe is fraught with dangers, large and small. Bad things happen in it. Horrible things. Should we care less when they happen to an unnamed redshirt than to a beloved captain? For no one to ever die when undertaking such a daunting task as expanding our knowledge of the universe would be ridiculous and to my mind should undermine anyone's ability to take these stories seriously.

And as far as death goes...I'm pretty sure somebody once said that "how we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." Just because we die, that doesn't mean that all we accomplished in life simply disappears. Our bodies die, but the impact we made on those whose lives we touched lives on for as long after that as we are remembered.

Kathryn Janeway's life was terribly important to those who served with her, and will never be forgotten. It is sad to think that we may never again see her fulfilling her vast potential, or inspiring those around her to reach their own. But for those who witnessed her life and for the fans who drew such encouragement from her position on the show and Mulgrew's portrayal, her death does not diminish her already formidable accomplishments. It's not as if she never existed. She did....for a given period of time, and during that time did amazing things.

As creative people, we are not only obligated to explore those stories that make everybody feel warm and fuzzy at the end. Plenty of some of the best Star Trek ever created doesn't do that. It respects the "reality" of the undertaking and the implied danger.

Killing Janeway is not an attempt to boost sales (for any series), nor is it a mere convenience. It is a vivid reminder of the price we pay for seeking out new life and new civilizations. Nothing worth doing comes without a cost. Choosing to honor her death, rather than scrambling to take it back, honors her life, and all she brought to the Star Trek universe.

Believe me when I tell you that when my father, whom I could not have loved more, and to whom I dedicated Full Circle, died terribly unexpectedly when I was in my early twenties, part of me would have given anything to flip a switch and bring him back. What I know now, that I didn't know then, is that though I am denied his daily company, he is ever present in my life and his achievements continue to set the bar to which I aspire. I would have had him live forever. But that was not my choice to make. And I do take a great deal of comfort from the fact that he lives on in me and my brothers, and his lessons will be passed on to those who come after us.

Perhaps most importantly, I would not be the person I am now, had I not learned to accept death as part of life. It isn't fun and it isn't pretty. But it is what is. To deny it is to refuse to live fully, and that's one thing neither my father nor Kathryn Janeway would ever have found acceptable.

Kirsten Beyer

 

[William Leisner]

BTW, I'm ignoring the labeling of my previous post as "feminist." I am a female and have my point of view, but I'm not playing the gender card, honest.

Meanwhile, five paragraphs earlier...

I conceded the fact that the number of female characters has increased over the years. My point was that Janeway is the first female lead in Star Trek and that many fans were thrilled with that fact.

No, no gender card there.

I realize that Star Trek writers are naturally going to defend the editors and sing the party line—they know who offers them contracts—and so I consider the source.

And now we're liars. Lovely.

 

[Christopher]

"Review the bidding” is a colloquial term that means to go back and see how we arrived at our current position--no money involved. *Where is the Ferenghi smilie when I need it?* Sorry if the phrase isn’t in your vocabulary, Christopher, but it works for me.

Oh, I think I understand now.

I conceded the fact that the number of female characters has increased over the years. My point was that Janeway is the first female lead in Star Trek and that many fans were thrilled with that fact. We enjoy reading about her, were bitterly disappointed that her character was killed in “Before Dishonor,” and had hoped that the next Voyager novel would “correct the mistake.” Naturally, we’ll be even more disappointed if that doesn’t happen.

Who's this "we"? You can only speak for yourself. You have no idea how another person might react to Full Circle. Heck, you can't even be sure how you will react, since you don't know what's in it yet.

Don’t tell me Christie Golden was busy elsewhere, as if she had sole possession of the “magic Voyager keyboard.” Just concede that another writer should have picked up the storyline years ago and leave it at that.

So you don't want to hear the truth, you just want me to repeat what you want to hear? With that attitude, why are you even talking to other people instead of just buying a parrot?

I'm not going to lie to you just because you tell me to. I'm going to tell it like it is, because even though you're going to ignore it, someone else with an open mind might be genuinely curious to know. The truth is that it would've been rude to toss Golden aside the moment a delay occurred. Rude to the author who'd invested a lot in the series, and rude to her fans who expected her to continue with the series. And contrary to the expectations of spoiled Trek fans, it's not remotely unusual in publishing for an author to take years between installments in a series, because we do have lives that can get in the way, and because publishing is a complicated and often glacial business where unavoidable delays can arise for a variety of reasons.

So it wasn't an abrupt or easy decision to move on to another author, and it shouldn't have been. And once the decision was made, it would've been reckless to rush out another book. Instead, Marco took his time picking the right author and developing a really strong storyline, so that when the series did come back, it would be worth the wait. And as someone who read it just a couple of days ago, I'm telling you: it will be.

I realize that Star Trek writers are naturally going to defend the editors and sing the party line—they know who offers them contracts—and so I consider the source.

You just crossed the line. Nobody calls me a liar. I'm done trying to reason with you. There's no point if you're just going to hurl insults and accusations.

To reduce the death of Kathryn Janeway to a "plot device" is completely inappropriate. It is my personal belief that the Star Trek universe is fraught with dangers, large and small. Bad things happen in it. Horrible things. Should we care less when they happen to an unnamed redshirt than to a beloved captain? For no one to ever die when undertaking such a daunting task as expanding our knowledge of the universe would be ridiculous and to my mind should undermine anyone's ability to take these stories seriously.

True. Every redshirt is the most important person in someone's life -- someone's child or parent or spouse or sibling. Their death may be trivial in the grand scheme of things, but for some people it's going to be a defining tragedy of their lives and something they'll need a long time to get over. That's what death is, and it's worthwhile to confront that with a character who really means something to the audience, rather than glossing over the impact of death by reserving it for secondary characters who "don't matter as much."

And as far as death goes...I'm pretty sure somebody once said that "how we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." Just because we die, that doesn't mean that all we accomplished in life simply disappears. Our bodies die, but the impact we made on those whose lives we touched lives on for as long after that as we are remembered.

Kathryn Janeway's life was terribly important to those who served with her, and will never be forgotten. It is sad to think that we may never again see her fulfilling her vast potential, or inspiring those around her to reach their own. But for those who witnessed her life and for the fans who drew such encouragement from her position on the show and Mulgrew's portrayal, her death does not diminish her already formidable accomplishments. It's not as if she never existed. She did....for a given period of time, and during that time did amazing things.
...
Killing Janeway is not an attempt to boost sales (for any series), nor is it a mere convenience. It is a vivid reminder of the price we pay for seeking out new life and new civilizations. Nothing worth doing comes without a cost. Choosing to honor her death, rather than scrambling to take it back, honors her life, and all she brought to the Star Trek universe.

I think that what Full Circle does with the aftermath of Janeway's death is a better tribute to Janeway than some technobabble resurrection could ever be.

Perhaps most importantly, I would not be the person I am now, had I not learned to accept death as part of life. It isn't fun and it isn't pretty. But it is what is. To deny it is to refuse to live fully, and that's one thing neither my father nor Kathryn Janeway would ever have found acceptable.

Well-said.

 

[Kirsten Beyer]

Thanks, Chris.

 

[ATimson]

And now we're liars. Lovely.

You do write fiction professionally. So yes, you are liars. Paid ones.