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wildfires in Cental and East Texas

Paulcpick

Paulcpick

Commander
Red Shirt
I have been living with the smell of smoke on the wind for the last 3 months, and its about to get the better of me....

Anyway, moving beyond the rant, Central and East Texas is experiencingits worste1 year drought in recorded History. Right now, there are 3 seperate 1000+ acre wildfires burning within a 60 mile radius, and no rain in sight. I am about 15 miles from one of the bigger fires this year, the Montgomery/Grimes/Waller county fire, its like a warzone over there, The VFD's that are responding can't slow the fire, and because its in a heavily populated area, they can't use air tankers to drop water...

Anyway, its bad. If you've ever been to The Texas Renaissance Festival, that is the staging ground for the fire and rescue and evacuation operations...
 
^^ Actually, yes... Do you have any idea how much damage to people/structures retardant dropped at speed and altitude can do? I've seen what it can do.

In areas with heavy population, air tankers cannot safely fly at altitudes where their drops will be effective.

Now, typically, when we use water or retardant, we have to do so well away from any structures.. We also have to take firefighers into consideration. With engines and crews standing by for structure protection, we can't just drop a load on top of them.

Really, what water and retardant do is serve as a method to slow the spread down and give ground crews a chance to do burnouts, dig fire lines and prep structures.

Sometimes water is dropped on already burned or burning areas to cool them down and prevent the spread, but rarely dropped on active flames, as most of the water will dissapate.

Also, in areas with high winds, water and retardant are rendered largely ineffective because they dissapate before they reach the ground. Add to that, the dangers of flying in winds like that.

Wildfire is rarely fought directly on the front of the fire. Grass fires in particular burn extremely fast and hot, which puts firefighters in the direct line of danger.

On edit... Wildland fire is the business I'm in, in case you're wondering.. I'm currently packed and prepped, waiting on orders to go to Texas to join the fight.
 
well, when you drop water from an Air Tanker, be it a chopper, or an airplane, its a bit more than "a little" water, the tankers used in this area are about 1,500-2,500 US Gallon air tankers, the problem being with this fire, is its not really one huge fire, but lots of medium sized fires, in a heavily populated area....

and, just learned today before lunch that this fire in my area is now burning over 3000 acres

Edit: What He said^


and thank you, we need all the help we can get, seems like the state is a tinderbox right now.......
 
marillion said:
In areas with heavy population, air tankers cannot safely fly at altitudes where their drops will be effective.
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I would draw a distinction between legally and safely in this case. Unless they get an exception from the FAA-mandated 500 feet minimum altitude in populated areas, other than for normal takeoff or landing procedures?

Now, typically, when we use water or retardant, we have to do so well away from any structures.. We also have to take firefighers into consideration. With engines and crews standing by for structure protection, we can't just drop a load on top of them.

Really, what water and retardant do is serve as a method to slow the spread down and give ground crews a chance to do burnouts, dig fire lines and prep structures.

Sometimes water is dropped on already burned or burning areas to cool them down and prevent the spread, but rarely dropped on active flames, as most of the water will dissapate.
Click to expand...
Interesting, I didn't know some of those particulars.

Also, in areas with high winds, water and retardant are rendered largely ineffective because they dissapate before they reach the ground. Add to that, the dangers of flying in winds like that.
Click to expand...
There's actually very little danger from flying in high winds (other than for landing in a high crosswind). The danger arises from strong wind shear, or abrupt changes in wind intensity/direction. Not only can this impose abrupt changes in airspeed leading to possible stalls, it can also impose unsafe stresses on the airframe at normally safe airspeeds.

In short, high constant winds = inconvenient but manageable, high gusty or otherwise variable winds, possibly including microbursts = dangerous.
 
My parents live just over the bridge at Pedernales river, by Lake Travis. They are pretty much 30-45 minutes from ANYWHERE. Their entire neighborhood was evacuated Monday morning, and they've been staying in a motel since. I keep calling their house, just to see if the answering machine comes in---which it has, thank goodness. But the only road in or out---hwy 71---is closed in either direction. About 6 thousand acres have burned out there.

They just bought a new house, which is in the process of being built--but that area has also been evacuated. They could be out of BOTH their houses---or neither---by the time this is all done.

I was going to go up there this week and help with packing and what-not, but it looks like I might have to put that off for the time being.

I really feel bad about Bastrop; I drive through there all the time on my way to Austin. It's a nice little town, especially once you get off the freeway. All the historic buildings in the park and by the river are really something to see. Apparently, they've lost an entire suburb there---about 500 houses. That's heartbreaking.
 
Yes, the Bastrop fire is real baad, but I heard yesterday that they are starting to finally contain that Fire.
My aunt and her family live in Burnett, and from what they are telling me, the drought is so bad over there that people are having to water their foundations just to try to keep the ground from pulling the foundations of their houses apart.

I hope your Parents House(s) come out unscathed, and maybe at some point we'll get some rain and squelch these fires out for good.

I am thankful that East Texas finally got some rain, because there were 4 separate wildfires all burning within 10 miles of my Dads house, and since he works off, there is no one there to watch the house.
 
I meant to post this earlier.

My counterpart at the Texas State Forest Service has posted this list of all the currently active wildfires across the state.

Active Texas Wildfires

There is also more information about the newest fires here on Inciweb, the national fire information database.

Inciweb Texas Fire Info

I can't vouch for how accurate or inaccurate the info is, but though y'all would find it interesting.

On edit: Regarding Lindley's comments about the wind... The information about flying in sustained high winds is partly right.. However, the topography plays a major role in that.. If you're talking miles and miles of wide open, flat New Mexico or Texas prairie, it's one thing. However in areas like the Texas hill country or in more mountainous terrain, the winds get really squirrely (firefighter pseudo-technical terminology), causing shifts and differing speeds as it flows through canyons and washes. I don't know how much it's affecting the fires in Texas at this point, but that may be a factor.
 
Of all the days of my childhood the one I rmember most clearly is the afternoon of 7 Feb 1967. On this day more than 650,000 acres burnt in Southern Tasmania in a space of just 5 hours. 62 people died.

I thought that people viewing this thread might like to see what equipment was used to fight fires that day as it shows just how far firefighting has come. I took this photos at an event that was held on the 40th anniversry of the fires.

snug2.jpg


snug1.jpg
 
Yea, we were talking about this very subject at work today, I work at a Feed Mill that has been in business since the mid 1930's and some of our customers are literally older than dirt, and so are some of the people I work with, and thats how they were describing putting out grass fires. "With a wet burlap sack and a rake."
But, then, even as now, all our advanced techniques and advanced technologys, we can only at best slow the advance of these fires until they burn themselves out....
 
Heard from Mom & Dad; they are both home, safe and sound. Their neighborhood was the only one that the fire department had cleared for occupation. It was apparently didn't lose a single home, and apparently, didn't even lose power. So, PHEW!

They are going to check on their new house tomorrow. I'm hoping that one is OK, too. It's only 2 months away from being finished.

I was going to go up for a visit this wekk, and maybe help them pack up, but they are so stressed out (plus, they will be downtown all day tomorrow); I think I will postpone my visit until later in the month. They need a few days to just relax,and I'm not keen on driving through that area right now. But I told Mom to call me if they need help; I can be there in less than 4 hours.

The whole state is just freakishly dry. I've been watering my yard (and my foundation) twice a week, but our driveway is starting to buckle. The weather service says not to expect measurable rainfall until next year. Next :censored::censored: year.


OY.
 
Glad to hear about your parents house, I'm still watching the wildfire in Montgomery county burn, but it seems to be at least slowed now.

auntiehill said:
The whole state is just freakishly dry. I've been watering my yard (and my foundation) twice a week, but our driveway is starting to buckle. The weather service says not to expect measurable rainfall until next year. Next :censored::censored: year.


OY.
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Yea, these are pretty much the thoughts of every one I know. Go figure, the one year the freakin weather people get it right.....
 
Good to hear that your parents' house is safe, auntiehill.

I hope the weatherfolk are wrong and you guys get some rain. :(
 
Just noticed a plume of black smoke off in the distance---on the other side of the highway. It's fairly far from me, but it's close enough that I can tell roughly where it is. I hope that wasn't someone's house.


Mom and Dad are recuperating at home; both their houses are fine--thank goodness. With any luck, they will be moved into their new place before Thanksgiving.
 
actually, last I had heard, he had come back and was actually at the Bastrop fire command center Yesterday, seeing as it got declared a disaster area, which in Texas requires a visit by the Governor.
Also, I was told today by my Volunteer Fire Fighter co-worker, that we are getting 3 jetliner sized Air Tankers from California today, one for the fire here, one for the Bastrop fire, and one for the East Texas fire. They should be up and in service by tomorrow.

Im not a particularly big fan of Rick Perry, but he was the best person available for the Job, and he's doing alot better than your Governor, who constantly sticks his nose is other states Business.


You Stay off my Lawn, I'll stay off of yours.
 
nevermind. bad day at the office. its tough watching people you know loose everything. Not just one Family, but dozens. If you want to politicize something, go somewhere else.
 
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Paulcpick said:
Im not a particularly big fan of Rick Perry, but he was the best person available for the Job, and he's doing alot better than your Governor, who constantly sticks his nose is other states Business.
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Rick Perry has tried to outlaw homosexuality so in no way is he the best man for the job. Second, my governor is Andrew Cuomo who has been noted for keeping a very low profile so I'm unsure how he's sticking his nose in other states' business.
 
I was going by the location listed in your profile, sorry. but I stand by my position that Rick Perry was the best person to seriously run for election for the Governor of Texas the last few Elections, like him or not.
Personally, I woulda liked to have seen Kinky Friedman become Governor, but that was never really realistic.
 
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