TheLonelySquire
Vice Admiral
It's not God sending someone to Hell. It's the person rejecting God. It's very simple to avoid actually.
Why would God send someone to hell over suicide?
- Thread starter Jayson
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It's not God sending someone to Hell. It's the person rejecting God. It's very simple to avoid actually.
A
Amaris
Guest
I'm pretty much with Stone Cold Sisko and RJDiogenes on this one.
You tell people there's this wonderful place where they'll see their family and friends again after they die, and some people are going to want to head there right that second, if the belief is powerful enough. So it became "Suicide will send you to hell" to keep the common folk from misunderstanding the whole heaven/hell carrot and stick, and offing themselves.
The idea that God "lets" someone go to hell is absolutely heinous. Since God is considered a "Father", we'll look at it that way:
"Hey kid, I want you to come home with me, but if you don't do exactly what I tell you and live by my exact rules, then you have to live somewhere else, somewhere filled with torment, trouble and pain, and I will never, ever let you back in this house, even if you come begging at the door."
That's not a good Father. It's a petulant child screaming to get his way. A petulant, angry, omnipotent child who can change it all, but won't, and will let you suffer because of it. That's an abusive Father, one unfit to have children, and that's the truth.
J.
You tell people there's this wonderful place where they'll see their family and friends again after they die, and some people are going to want to head there right that second, if the belief is powerful enough. So it became "Suicide will send you to hell" to keep the common folk from misunderstanding the whole heaven/hell carrot and stick, and offing themselves.
The idea that God "lets" someone go to hell is absolutely heinous. Since God is considered a "Father", we'll look at it that way:
"Hey kid, I want you to come home with me, but if you don't do exactly what I tell you and live by my exact rules, then you have to live somewhere else, somewhere filled with torment, trouble and pain, and I will never, ever let you back in this house, even if you come begging at the door."
That's not a good Father. It's a petulant child screaming to get his way. A petulant, angry, omnipotent child who can change it all, but won't, and will let you suffer because of it. That's an abusive Father, one unfit to have children, and that's the truth.
J.
^ Um, I never got the feeling that God wants me to "do exactly what I say." There are things He's quite specific about, sure, but otherwise we are all given a lot of latitude. You can follow God without living in a specific neighborhood or marrying a specific person or even, within some limits, holding down a specific job. You can like movies or books or hiking or sewing or playing video games. There's lots of room for variation there.
And I'd like to say once again something that SEVeral people have mentioned, which is that nowhere in the Bible does it say that if you commit suicide you are going to hell. I don't think it specifically says that any one thing will definitely send you to hell.
And I'd like to say once again something that SEVeral people have mentioned, which is that nowhere in the Bible does it say that if you commit suicide you are going to hell. I don't think it specifically says that any one thing will definitely send you to hell.
A
Amaris
Guest
Please understand that I answer this with all due respect. I don't want you thinking I'm attacking you, JustKate.
Do you have to believe in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, and accept that salvation in order to steer clear of Hell?
If you do, then you have to do this with absolutely zero evidence that the particular path you have chosen is the right one. While you may pick the right one, 5 billion other people on this planet will pick the "wrong" one, and God will "let" them go to hell.
J.
Well, no, I actually think it's possible to go to heaven without calling yourself a Christian. I could be wrong there, but then again, maybe not. I believe you have to try to follow God, but I think that God can go by many names - maybe even "my conscience" - and if you do that, the rest of it will work out. Following Jesus is my way of following God.
I could be wrong, but I think it's at least possible. And in any case, I know for absolute damn sure that it's not for me to judge.
Have you ever read C.S. Lewis' The Last Battle (the final Narnia book)? Lewis considers this possibility in that book.
A
Amaris
Guest
Surprisingly, you are not in the minority on that one.
Check this out (Click on Report Two):
http://religions.pewforum.org/reports#
Believe me, it would be wonderful if Christians and many people of other faiths took that same stance, because I believe this world would be much better as a result.
I've read it (I actually have the whole set and I cherish them very much
). J.
TheLonelySquire
Vice Admiral
It does say what it takes to get into Heaven. There's only one way. So in a sense it tells you what it takes to go to hell.
What's so wrong about being a aithest that they should be excluded from heaven? I'm not a aithest but the lack of evidence and proof of God's exstience should be enough of a reason to understand why people take this view. Not beleiving in a God isn't the samething as trying to stick it to God.
Jason
Jason
Thespeckledkiwi
Vice Admiral
And a lot of 9/11 victims (who jumped instead of went down with the buildings)
Yes, I've seen that report - very interesting.
JustKate said:
Sure, but...may I just say that I've met a LOT of extremely intolerant atheists? Being judgmental is, sadly, a common trait among human beings, both religious and atheist.
JustKate said:
I've read it (I actually have the whole set and I cherish them very much
Me too, me too! Anyway, there's that scene right at the end where at least one Calorman gets into the Narnia version of heaven because in following Tash he was actually following Aslan. Very thought provoking, I always thought.
TheLonelySquire said:
Yeeees, but there's still a lot of latitude there. By that I mean that there are plenty of things that have no bearing on salvation one way or another. Saying "Do this" doesn't necessarily mean that you aren't allowed to do anything but "this." We're to love the Lord God, we're to love our neighbor as ourselves, but that leaves a lot of the details up to us - where we live, what we do for a living (within certain limits of course), whether we marry or not, what hobbies we chose to pursue, and so on. Does that make any sense?
A
Amaris
Guest
It actually caught me by surprise. I have to admit it is a very heartening thing to read.
Yeah, I remember reading that and wondering how many Christians caught that particular piece of allegory.
J.
I think it's fairly important, yes.
But it's not like that's asking a whole lot, is it? It doesn't mean you have to restructure your whole life. Recognizing that a very important thing happened, and thinking "Hey, that's cool", is not exactly the most burdensome thing that can be asked of a person.
For example, I heard that at least one member of Slayer is a devout Catholic. Assuming that's true, then well, what's the problem? If a person can believe that Jesus died on the cross for their sins and *still* be a member of a band like that, then it can't be that much of an imposition, can it?
He doesn't send anyone to hell. We send ourselves by not accepting His way of salvation that is only thru His Son Jesus. I don't believe committing suicide will send someone there. Samson killed himself and all that was with him and he didn't go there cause God knew what he was going to do and still gave him the strength to do it..Only an unsaved person goes to hell.
Yes, it is. You're asking someone to believe in something that essentially has no proof of existence.
Perhaps. But that's exactly what faith is. If that's too much to ask, well, you can't blame me for trying, can you?
I would certainly hope that a Christian is concerned about what the bible says. The bible is the roadmap, it is the book for a Christian to live by. The bible is God's holy word. Yes penned by men BUT men under the leading and inspiration of the Holy Spirit (the third person of the trinity).
I'm a born again Christian and you doggone right I'm concerned what my Holy Father in Heaven says in His holy word.
A
Amaris
Guest
I think it's fairly important, yes.
But it's not like that's asking a whole lot, is it? It doesn't mean you have to restructure your whole life. Recognizing that a very important thing happened, and thinking "Hey, that's cool", is not exactly the most burdensome thing that can be asked of a person.
For example, I heard that at least one member of Slayer is a devout Catholic. Assuming that's true, then well, what's the problem? If a person can believe that Jesus died on the cross for their sins and *still* be a member of a band like that, then it can't be that much of an imposition, can it?
I would be believing what I would consider a lie. I would not be able to live with that kind of duality. I can hold different opinions on many things, but I won't live something I believe to be a lie at worst, or merely wishful thinking at best. My principles and ethics explicitly forbid it.
J.
Not being sure of whether or not God exists is being agnostic. If you're trying to stick it to God, yeah pretty clear example of a atheist. A agnostic, someone who is a theological fence sitter or maybe has never heard of God, but who has lived according to God's law - without ever hearing about them - they're just a plain good person, might get in to heaven. If you're anti-theistic, anti-church, anti-morality, as I understand it, yes excluded from heaven. If you're in the middle ground between those two positions, gets complex.
Wow, never heard of that!
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