Why were TNG Movies Mediocre?

[john titor]

TUD kind of went beyond focus groups and charts, it had a strong philosophical message I guess. Though it could be have been developed as a rather lame commentary on the USSR just like Rocky's speech at the end of Rocky 4.

 

[JustKate]

^ Yeah, I probably generalized too much. The movie franchise does kind of feel that way sometimes, though - very focus-groupy and listen-to-the-suits-ish.

 

[seigezunt]

The TNG movies didn't feel epic at all, just like any other episode. They didn't feel like an event, which, as has been said, could be also because the show was still in recent memory.

 

[kitsune]

Except maybe TMP...which was a very flawed movie but which did at least start with a genuinely creative premise, I think.

TMP's plot had a number of similarities to the one in TOS: The Changeling (Nomad).

1. Long ago, Earth launched a probe.
2. The probe was thought to be lost.
3. Something drastic happened to the probe, increasing its capabilities.
4. Probe starts destroying things that it doesn't understand.
5. Kirk is somehow uniquely suited to stopping the upgraded probe.
6. Probe refers to humans as [biological | carbon] units.
7. Probe intends to remove the human infestation aboard the Enterprise.
8. Probe is confused about who its creator is.

 

[JustKate]

^ Oh, I know, I remember all that. But given my familiarity with that episode, I still think TMP had something original to offer. Not saying it delivered...

 

[Karnbeln]

I'd argue that, yes, the TNG movies had problems, but so did the TOS ones. People just pick them apart less out of some sense of nostalgia or franchise purity.

When the weekly "Rate this Movie" threads come out for any TOS movie, is there a single one everybody likes? No, half of the people go, "My favorite! I remember watching it in the theatres! This character was amazing!" and the other half go, "Are you kidding me? Only movie ever where I've fallen asleep! STAR TREK IN NAME ONLY! If you really want a movie in the vein of TOS, watch that other movie! It is Star Trek down to the T! I remember watching it in the theatres! This character was amazing!"

The Wrath of Khan was NOT modern Shakespeare, no matter what we may wish it to be.

 

[Praetor]

^ Oh, I know, I remember all that. But given my familiarity with that episode, I still think TMP had something original to offer. Not saying it delivered...

And from what I recall regarding the making of TMP, they all pretty much realized even at the time that they were rehashing the premise of 'The Changeling' but tried to explore more of the 'God' angle.

 

[DWF]

Why didn't the Son'a just colonize the opposite side of the planet from the Ba'ku? They could've saved themselves a lot of effort.
.

Gee, I never thought about that. You're right! Just goes to show that sometimes they would throw logic overboard if it helped to construct a crisis for the crew to face. Generations did the same (Picard going back to five minutes before doom on Veridian III instead of, you know, any earlier date) and Nemesis, too, of course.

It was explained in the movie that, it would take ten years of regular exposure to reverse what was happening to the Son'a and that many of them wouldn't survive the trip back to the planet.

 

[Karnbeln]

I hope they were planning to take the staples out of their faces before de-aging and the resulting skin-tightening.

Ouch.

 

[Myasishchev]

Except maybe TMP...which was a very flawed movie but which did at least start with a genuinely creative premise, I think.

TMP's plot had a number of similarities to the one in TOS: The Changeling (Nomad).

1. Long ago, Earth launched a probe.
2. The probe was thought to be lost.
3. Something drastic happened to the probe, increasing its capabilities.
4. Probe starts destroying things that it doesn't understand.
5. Kirk is somehow uniquely suited to stopping the upgraded probe.
6. Probe refers to humans as [biological | carbon] units.
7. Probe intends to remove the human infestation aboard the Enterprise.
8. Probe is confused about who its creator is.

Indeed. Thankfully, they didn't go for a ninth similarity and have it suck, too. I'm baffled by The Changeling being considered a particularly classic episode. It's really just The Ultimate Computer, minus the important theme of man's fear of being replaced by technology.

I don't mind rehashing ideas if they take a flawed execution and turn it into something much better...

 

[kitsune]

Indeed. Thankfully, they didn't go for a ninth similarity and have it suck, too.

9. Probe develops its own consciousness.

 

[Myasishchev]

Indeed. Thankfully, they didn't go for a ninth similarity and have it suck, too.

9. Probe develops its own consciousness.

I shall analyze error analyze ERROR

 

[NCC74894A]

Except maybe TMP...which was a very flawed movie but which did at least start with a genuinely creative premise, I think.

TMP's plot had a number of similarities to the one in TOS: The Changeling (Nomad).

1. Long ago, Earth launched a probe.
2. The probe was thought to be lost.
3. Something drastic happened to the probe, increasing its capabilities.
4. Probe starts destroying things that it doesn't understand.
5. Kirk is somehow uniquely suited to stopping the upgraded probe.
6. Probe refers to humans as [biological | carbon] units.
7. Probe intends to remove the human infestation aboard the Enterprise.
8. Probe is confused about who its creator is.

Indeed, after TMP came out it soon acquired the nickname "Where Nomad Has Gone Before".

Anyway, as I mentioned in the First Contact thread, all the Trek films (not just the TNG ones) looked and felt more like glorified TV episodes than true feature films to me, which is no surprise because both TOS and TNG were built as TV series first, and retrofitted for the silver screen later (just like the Enterprise itself in TMP, fittingly enough). This is why I'm so excited about the reboot - the Abrams universe was crafted with the silver screen first and foremost in mind, right from the start.

 

[TedShatner10]

The Undiscovered Country was great but felt like a above average two parter of DS9 and some of TOS cast were getting overtly geriatric instead of just middle aged, I enjoyed The Motion Picture in the same way I enjoyed David Lynch's Dune (very weird and slow paced, but relatively likable and unique) and The Voyage Home was enjoyable fun in the similar vein to DS9's "Little Green Men" and Voyager's "Future's End". I found The Final Frontier completely risible and shows that at least Insurrection and Nemesis had competent production values and proper effects...

 

[Karnbeln]

The only part of TUC I dislike is Rura Penthe. It really starts to drag there. The rest of the time, it is the most interesting of the TOS movies, with the most compelling plot, and the best action sequences outside of Khan.

I think it's my favorite, but I always go back and forth on this stuff. Tomorrow I'll probably think the movie sucked.