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Why wasn't Rand given a bigger role in the movies?

Gotham Central

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One of the interesting things about the TOS movies was that Rand kept making random appearances without ever being made a part of the films. The question is why?

For instance, in TMP, Rand was the Transporter operator and thus really only in 2-3 scenes. She could have been given a bigger role and more screen time...say replacing Ilia at the Navigation position instead of De Falco.

There is no reason she could not have been in STII or a part of the conspiracy to steal the Enterprise in STIII (she was after all in Spacedock when the Enterprise returned).

She turns up again in STVI, but does not have much to do.

I'm just wondering why, on the one hand, they kept bringing her in for cameos...yet never made her one of the team? It would have been nice to have another woman as part of the main group.
 
I think the writers bent over backwards to include as many ensemble players as possible. Rand just wasn't necessary to any of the stories.

It's not a club, where a fun outing is needed for all past members. You could far more profitably argue why Chapel was not included more often.
 
I think her apperances were little more than a nod to the fans. Other actors from the show also only got minimal screen time. Chapel and Kyle for example.
 
Why would Rand have been a major character? She was only in eight episodes, one just a walk-on. She was a character who'd only be familiar to the dedicated fans, not to the casual viewers who constituted the majority of the films' audience. They didn't make Rand a major player for the same reason ST 2009 anachronistically did make Chekov a major player, and the same reason the other TOS films kept the same command crew together for well over a decade -- because those seven people are the ones the general public perceives as the main characters of Star Trek. Supporting players like Chapel and Rand weren't prominent enough to warrant more than cameos. (Chapel was in three times as many episodes as Rand, but Chapel was only in two of the movies while Rand was in four. So I'd say Rand got treated comparatively well in the movies.)

Besides, it was hard enough to give all seven main characters sizeable moments. Sulu and Uhura only had a few, and even after Sulu got his own command it only diminished the size of his role. Adding a fifth supporting player on top of Scott, Sulu, Chekov, and Uhura would've divided up the already small pie even further and left each of them with even less screen time.

Then there's the fact that Grace Lee Whitney did very little acting in the decade before ST:TMP due to serious drug and alcohol addiction, and she didn't get herself cleaned up until the '80s. So she wasn't a likely candidate for a major role even if there'd been room to give her one.
 
Why didn't Riley?

Or Boma?

I'm looking for a Mira Romaine cameo in JJTrek2.
 
For instance, in TMP, Rand was the Transporter operator and thus really only in 2-3 scenes. She could have been given a bigger role and more screen time...say replacing Ilia at the Navigation position instead of De Falco.

Cuz De Falco was sleeping with the Captain at the time, and not Rand?

I kid, De Falco was played by William Shatner's then-current wife...
 
Why would Rand have been a major character? She was only in eight episodes, one just a walk-on. She was a character who'd only be familiar to the dedicated fans, not to the casual viewers who constituted the majority of the films' audience. They didn't make Rand a major player for the same reason ST 2009 anachronistically did make Chekov a major player, and the same reason the other TOS films kept the same command crew together for well over a decade -- because those seven people are the ones the general public perceives as the main characters of Star Trek. Supporting players like Chapel and Rand weren't prominent enough to warrant more than cameos. (Chapel was in three times as many episodes as Rand, but Chapel was only in two of the movies while Rand was in four. So I'd say Rand got treated comparatively well in the movies.)

Besides, it was hard enough to give all seven main characters sizeable moments. Sulu and Uhura only had a few, and even after Sulu got his own command it only diminished the size of his role. Adding a fifth supporting player on top of Scott, Sulu, Chekov, and Uhura would've divided up the already small pie even further and left each of them with even less screen time.

Then there's the fact that Grace Lee Whitney did very little acting in the decade before ST:TMP due to serious drug and alcohol addiction, and she didn't get herself cleaned up until the '80s. So she wasn't a likely candidate for a major role even if there'd been room to give her one.

Yes; Whitney had some severe personal issues, and it affected her acting career for some time. In short: she wasn't around to play the role.
 
As I understand it, Leonard Nimoy was very kind to her, getting her onboard for cameos whenever he could, and of course she was given a relatively large role in STVI.

I agree with Christopher : given her short time on TOS, I thought she got loads of screen time in the films.
 
As I understand it, Leonard Nimoy was very kind to her, getting her onboard for cameos whenever he could, and of course she was given a relatively large role in STVI.
The fans voted her in for ST VI according to a call in (or write in) poll at the time.
 
I understood why she got a small role in the movies when she was in the VOY episode. She's not a good actress.
 
In short, there were external events that affected the way the characters were presented on screen. Although I think she was treated terribly at the time and I really missed her character (I wished they would have featured her as an occasional guest star) Whitney's alcoholism did affect her career. She appeared in TMP because she approached them not long prior to shooting and she had some off-camera experience in admin so I think she held a dual role in the production. In an early draft she functioned as Uhura's relief on comms but I think transporter chief gave her more scope, even if nothing was required in that particular movie. Her later appearances were because Nimoy wanted her to appear (and her cameo in TSFS was awesome) and because fans voted for her to appear (although some of her lines were later swapped to other characters).

However, the big 7 was really the Big 8 until Roddenberry was forced into a back seat role and his wife bowed out in solidarity. Apparently she would have appeared in TWoK had she agreed and likely in every other movie to the same extent.

I wish they had been prepared to fragment the crew at an earlier stage by promoting Sulu and splitting the crew. That would have allowed for younger characters to be given time for development (which could have led organically to a next generation set in the same time period), and it would have allowed other characters like Chapel and Rand to break out on their own. Moving some to Starfleet Command would also have been quite cool.

I'm writing some fan stories set just after TMP and I'm finding it quite easy to feature Rand more prominently. I think she makes quite a good everyman because she's not overly smart or technical.
 
One of the interesting things about the TOS movies was that Rand kept making random appearances without ever being made a part of the films. The question is why?

Gene Roddenberry carried a lot of guilt when he realized, years later, that Grace Lee Whitney had sunk further into her losing battle with alcohol and diet pills after her contract was not renewed for TOS. After the series ended, the cast encouraged her to rejoin the convention circuit and Roddenberry wrote her character into the "Star Trek: Phase II" writers' bible. The "In Thy Image" script even puts her on the bridge, as Uhura's relief at Communications.

She could have been given a bigger role and more screen time...say replacing Ilia at the Navigation position instead of De Falco.
Perhaps, but De Falco was played by Marcy Lafferty. William Shatner had fought for her to be cast in the movie. She was his wife.

There is no reason she could not have been in STII
Yes there is. Grace Lee Whitney was incredibly disappointed that Nick Meyer and Harve Bennett weren't interested in sandwiching her into the script. But she was also not very well at the time, grappling with alcoholism. Grace was a guest at an Australian convention a few days after ST II premiered Down Under. (I was there, on the Guest of Honor table for the banquet!) She had such a great time reconnecting with Aussie fans, she went teetotal from that weekend. As far as I know, she still is. (She related all this in "Starlog".)

Note that Vonda McIntyre put Rand into her ST II novelization, still as transporter chief, but this wasn't scripted.

Not long after ST II, now a born-again Christian, Grace was interviewed on "Entertainment Tonight", discussing her lowest points in her life, and she took the interviewer on a walk down the sleaziest parts of Hollywood Boulevard at night, pointing out the doorways where she'd once worked... as a prostitute.

(she was after all in Spacedock when the Enterprise returned).
At Director Nimoy's request, after principal photography had ended. The Cafeteria scene was filmed on ILM's SPFX sound stage. Grace calls Nimoy "my hero"; they were kindred spirits in the alcohol battles.

Keep in mind that, at the time, Grace had a full-time job as a clerical officer for an actors' agency. She would have had to leave this job, or arrange leave, if her ST movie roles were too frequent or too extensive.

She turns up again in STVI, but does not have much to do.
Yep, although at the last minute, some of her lines were given to Christian Slater for his cameo. She also got to play this version of Rand in "Flashback" (VOY), but she is very stilted in that.

You omitted her role in ST IV. She and Majel Barrett got together at Majel's house for their own private rehearsal of their lines.

I'm just wondering why, on the one hand, they kept bringing her in for cameos...yet never made her one of the team? It would have been nice to have another woman as part of the main group.
They also had to drop Saavik back to a cameo in ST IV because there simply wasn't enough material to spread out to include Chapel or Rand more regularly than they did.

Re ST VI poll:
We did? Now, THAT'S something I never knew.

It was at a big convention. The unit publicist conducted the hands-up survey. The runner-up was Bruce Hyde to return as Kevin Riley.

I understood why she got a small role in the movies when she was in the VOY episode. She's not a good actress.

There were, no doubt, other factors happening in that week of filming. You can almost hear George Takei whispering to her that this was their big chance at a backdoor pilot for the "Captain Sulu" TV series! ;)

I don't think the director got the best out of anyone in that episode. Grace can be excellent. Look back at TOS, or some of her non-ST roles.
 
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...She had such a great time reconnecting with Aussie fans, she went teetotal from that weekend. As far as I know, she still is. (She related all this in "Starlog".)
I spoke to her a few weeks ago and she still refers to herself as being "in recovery". Boy is she a kick in the pants to talk to, though.
 
I was rather disappointed that they didn't bring in Rand in the first reboot movie and save Chekov for the sequel. She may have appeared in only 9 episodes and 4 of the 6 TOS movies but that is still more than Pike and all of the other pre-existing characters they featured. Looking back at the history of Trek, Rand was the principle female lead during the period she was with the show and I feel sad that this is too easily forgotten.

In a UK sci fi show, she would probably have got to be a bit more competent as a crewman. UK sci fi could be equally sexist but Dr Who and UFO had a fair share of decent female characters. A couple of the later yeomen also got to shoot a bit and beat up villains. Maybe if Rand had been able to get stuck into that sort of thing early on, they might have valued her a bit more. Who knows if Grace had been given more support from her employers at the time, she might have been spared much of her ordeal?

I think the issue with the new movies was probably signing up actors for multiple movies. If they only sign you up for movie one then you might hold them over a barrel for movie two so they don't bother featuring the character at all if they have nothing significant for them to do. It's bonkers really. I don't feel that my love of the X-men was ruined because Shadowcat was played by three different actresses.
 
Really interesting information in this thread, hearing of the stuff that happened behind the scenes is really fascinating.

That being said, my original thought upon seeing the thread title is that in an alternate reality where characters like Rand, Chapel, Riley, etc. were given bigger roles in the movies, is there a thread asking "Why wasn't Chekov/Sulu/Uhura/Scotty given a bigger role in the movies?"

Movies only have so long to tell a story and I feel that more of a role for one character would mean less of a role for another character. You could argue that Chekov's role in TWoK might have been better suited for Chapel, since his role as science officer was to examine signs of biological life, especially if you say that Chapel had a specialty in micro-biology. Of course, as I've been saying, someone would have come along and complained that Chekov should have had a bigger role or at least a role in the movie.

For TNG, you could also argue that O'Brien should have been on the Defiant with Worf in First Contact. Or that Selar should have been shown helping out in sickbay. Or Guinan should have been tending bar in a new version of Ten-Forward on the Enterprise-E. As was said earlier in the thread, the public expected to see the big 7 in the TOS movies and the TNG 7 in their movies. As much as it would be cool to see larger parts for the minor characters, and I think it's to Trek's credit that these minor characters have people rooting for them and who wanted to see them have screen time/have more screen time in the movies.
 
As was said earlier in the thread, the public expected to see the big 7 in the TOS movies

Exactly! This was a problem that faced the early Pocket ST tie-in novels, too. When Vonda McIntyre was asked to write "Enterprise: The First Adventure", she and the editor had to ascertain just how to skip around some of the problems set up by "Where No Man Has Gone Before" and balance it with regular reader expectations - and casual reader expectations. How do you tell the promoted story of "how the big seven came together" and the 20th anniversary of TOS when McCoy, Uhura and Chekov are missing from the second pilot?
 
Start the tale directly after NO MAN and involve multiple crew transfers.

Well, McIntyre couldn't do that, since her tale was Kirk's first adventure as captain of the Enterprise. What she did was to mention that Kirk wanted Gary Mitchell as his first officer but Mitchell was recovering from an injury and wouldn't be available for a while. As for McCoy, I think there was a mention that he'd need to go on leave for something in the near future, although I might be confusing that with some other story. I don't recall any explanation for why Sulu was helm instead of astrophysics, or where Kelso and Alden were supposed to come from.
 
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