Oh.. and did the actor really have a bad attitude during the series?? That just surprises me as it seems that Garrett Wang shows up to anything Star Trek... and what has he done since?? I really dont know.
Why was Harry Kim NEVER promoted?
- Thread starter Cky
- Start date
However, there could be some problems with that explanation.
1) Why was Tuvok referred to as "Lieutenant" since "Caretaker"?
2) For what reason was Tom Paris "demoted" in Season 1?
3) Tuvok started to wear "Lieutenant" pins three episodes after the transporter technology incident. What took Janeway so long? (although there could be alternate episodes orders for Season 1 and Tuvok was "demoted" right away)
4) From the Memory Alpha entry on the episode "Cathexis":
So was Tuvok demoted and promoted several times during this episode?
It's probably the same reason Chakotay is referred to as Commander for the entire series, though he appears to wear a Lieutenant Commander's pips. Erroneous ranks may just be order of the day on Voyager
Even though it's just a costuming error, a lot of people like to come up with in-universe reasons (at least I'm hoping I'm not alone there!). Though I can't really think of one for Tom or come up with anything near convincing for Cathexis.
Maybe the alien inhabiting him wanted to be a Lt Cmdr, but didn't want to seem obvious, so he kept changing it with his moods...
It's probably the same reason Chakotay is referred to as Commander for the entire series, though he appears to wear a Lieutenant Commander's pips. Erroneous ranks may just be order of the day on Voyager
But a Lieutenant Commander is usually referred to as "Commander". That's also why Tuvok was called "Commander" after his promotion in Season 4.
Good Will Riker
Admiral
It probably had to do with the fact that it is kind of unusual that Worf served 7 years in the lieutenant grades as chief of security on the flagship of the Federation and then here we have a regular science ship with a lieutenant commander assigned as its chief of security from the get-go.It's probably the same reason Chakotay is referred to as Commander for the entire series, though he appears to wear a Lieutenant Commander's pips. Erroneous ranks may just be order of the day on Voyager
But a Lieutenant Commander is usually referred to as "Commander". That's also why Tuvok was called "Commander" after his promotion in Season 4.
(Then again, DS9 had a Lieutenant Commander Michael Eddington serving as its chief of security during its 3rd and 4th seasons.)
So, he got demoted.
It probably had to do with the fact that it is kind of unusual that Worf served 7 years in the lieutenant grades as chief of security on the flagship of the Federation and then here we have a regular science ship with a lieutenant commander assigned as its chief of security from the get-go.It's probably the same reason Chakotay is referred to as Commander for the entire series, though he appears to wear a Lieutenant Commander's pips. Erroneous ranks may just be order of the day on Voyager
But a Lieutenant Commander is usually referred to as "Commander". That's also why Tuvok was called "Commander" after his promotion in Season 4.
So, he got demoted.
On the other hand, Voyager had an Ensign as Ops officer instead of a Lieutenant Commander. Starfleet makes strange personnel decisions sometimes.
But maybe Tuvok was specifically requested by Janeway, while Picard was happy with Worf being Chief of Security (no matter the rank).
I would assume that personnel decisions are made by the Captains and there is a standing tradition to have promising junior officers given responsibility early
I never understood why Harry Kim never got promoted. In DS9 we see Nog go from cadet to Lt(jg) in MUCH less time.
How funny, as I was reading this thread, I was also watching season 3's episode 'Displaced'... when the crew start disappearing. A female ensign is manning the Head of Security post, and Chakotay says "Who says there isn't room for advancement on this ship?"... LOL...
Janeway was just secretly lazy.
"When we get back I'll let Starfleet deal with promotions. I'd rather be on the holodeck."
But really, Paris did get demoted as punishment for interfering with the waterworld laws in the one episode with the...waterworld. Then he did something noble and got promoted again.
If you want to look at logically, Kim probably wasn't the only ensign doing an amazing job. There would have been alot of promotions. None the writers bothered with it.
"When we get back I'll let Starfleet deal with promotions. I'd rather be on the holodeck."
But really, Paris did get demoted as punishment for interfering with the waterworld laws in the one episode with the...waterworld. Then he did something noble and got promoted again.
If you want to look at logically, Kim probably wasn't the only ensign doing an amazing job. There would have been alot of promotions. None the writers bothered with it.
True, except Harry was the one who went on most of the field missions, unlike most other ensigns, so he did more than them, in a sense. Also he got killed twice and a thousand other things happened to him, and he's still standing....as ensign.
But on the episode "Endgame" You see him as Captain of his own ship, so in the end he got a premotion.
But on the episode "Endgame" You see him as Captain of his own ship, so in the end he got a premotion.
Or simply put: Unlike other ensigns on Voyager, he was a bridge officer and a member of the ship's senior staff. As such, he regularly attended all meetings with the captain, the XO and the other senior officers. I guess this was also the reason why he was allowed to command the night shift. That's what distinguishes Harry Kim from Samantha Wildman or Vorik.
(One could ask, why an ensign is a member of the senior staff in the first place. I assume the real world reason is that the producers also wanted to cast some younger actors/characters.)
Yup, I thought you might mention that
I'll be honest, I got nothing...
Jongredic! I'm so surprised... you of everyone should know that it was that dastardly Borg Baby running around at night whilst everyone was asleep, fiddling with their pips.... That craaazy Borg Baby!
I think this might still be worth the effort. #2 is easy: we already know that Paris just couldn't keep out of mischief, and if Janeway decided to demote some of her more valued officers, she could decide to demote this nuisance as well. #3 isn't that much of a problem, either: getting the demotion done would take some paperwork, which would have to go through the demotee himself... And Tuvok could come up with some amazingly logical reasons for delay.
It's either a costuming error or a dialogue error anyway. And if we decide it's actually a dialogue error, so many other things start making sense... No promotions, unless to countermand an earlier demotion, would be a perfect way to explain Ensing Harry Kim.
But Kim needn't have been the Chief Ops Officer. He was just the "new Ops officer" when coming aboard - and he could have been the senior surviving Ops officer once the smoke cleared.
Timo Saloniemi
I won't go into whatever tensions they may have been between Wang and those in charge of the show since I don't know anything about it and nothing has been confirmed.
But if we look at the character, I guess that the writers got stuck in to that "young, unexperienced Ensign Kim" scenario and didn't care about changing that.
In seasons 4-7, most of their efforts was to come up with stories about Janeway, Seven and The Doctor while the other characters were shoved in the background so they simply didn't care about Kim. I guess they simply forgot to promote him or simply didn't care.
Compare that to the Voyager books where Kim is actually doing something! He's a lot more active and important in the books, even if he gets injured and ends up in sickbay too many times.
I guess that Harry very quickly became the "whipping boy" stereotype on the show, the young, unexperienced kid who ended up in a lot of trouble and who the viewers should feel some pity for. I've seen that in other series as well, most notably in a Wild West series where the younger brother of the family hardly could fetch a bucket of water before getting into some trouble.
Which is a bit sad because Kim did have some potential. I can understand if Wang wasn't too happy about those in charge and the way they neglected his character.
But if we look at the character, I guess that the writers got stuck in to that "young, unexperienced Ensign Kim" scenario and didn't care about changing that.
In seasons 4-7, most of their efforts was to come up with stories about Janeway, Seven and The Doctor while the other characters were shoved in the background so they simply didn't care about Kim. I guess they simply forgot to promote him or simply didn't care.
Compare that to the Voyager books where Kim is actually doing something! He's a lot more active and important in the books, even if he gets injured and ends up in sickbay too many times.
I guess that Harry very quickly became the "whipping boy" stereotype on the show, the young, unexperienced kid who ended up in a lot of trouble and who the viewers should feel some pity for. I've seen that in other series as well, most notably in a Wild West series where the younger brother of the family hardly could fetch a bucket of water before getting into some trouble.
Which is a bit sad because Kim did have some potential. I can understand if Wang wasn't too happy about those in charge and the way they neglected his character.
Yup, I thought you might mention that
I'll be honest, I got nothing...
Jongredic! I'm so surprised... you of everyone should know that it was that dastardly Borg Baby running around at night whilst everyone was asleep, fiddling with their pips.... That craaazy Borg Baby!
I know!
I'm scared if I keep blaming everything on Borgbaby it's going to demote me in my sleep or turn me into a shuttle or some miracle cure to Voyager's resource problems.I've got the fear!
Ooh too late, Jongredic. You've just been demoted to Crewman. (Shakes fist at Borg Baby....)
