Why V'Ger chose to assimilate Ilia instead of Spock?
- Thread starter RColtrane
- Start date
It wanted the eye candy...
It would've made far more impact had V'ger taken Spock, especially had Kirk chosen to finish the circuit and go off into the unknown with them.
Plus I don't think Spock had the legs for the minidress Ilia-Probe wore.
It doesn't come across well in the way the scene is shot/edited, but the intent in the script was that the probe was going after Spock (after he smashed the computer controls to interrupt its probe) but Ilia got in the way and got taken instead. The novelization elaborates that Ilia intervened on purpose to protect Spock.
In its travels, learning all that is learnable, V'ger took some community college courses on story structure and screenwriting, and realized that it needed an excuse to get rid of extraneous characters like Decker and Ilia so that the main characters could return to the forefront exclusively in any subsequent films.
Out-universe, Spock was already being utilized as the audience's stand-in and translator for the thoughts and motivations of V'ger, so they wanted him to continue in that role.
In-universe, Spock was V'ger's bridge to communicating with the Enterprise and by extension the Creator, even if outwardly V'ger might not have acknowledged the Carbon Units as anything more than an infestation. Plus, it might have originally gone for Spock until he smashed the science station and pissed V'ger off, after which it switched to Ilia instead.
Besides all that, V'ger had a thing for bald chicks.
V'Ger was a toddler that wanted a momma -- not get stuck with a stern headmaster killjoy type in the form of Mr "Misery Guts" Spock.
Spock looked like he really didn't want to be on the Enterprise.
I guess that the novelization idea of Ilia getting in front of Spock while he was being blasted by the probe is nicer than the way it was shot for the movie.
But I have to agree with some people here too, that V'Ger didn't want the Spock "unit" after being travelling alone in space for centuries!
"V'Ger needs a female unit! V'Ger must evolve! V'Ger wants to join the female unit!!"
But I have to agree with some people here too, that V'Ger didn't want the Spock "unit" after being travelling alone in space for centuries!
"V'Ger needs a female unit! V'Ger must evolve! V'Ger wants to join the female unit!!"
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V'Ger had no interest in the "carbon units" at that point. Remember, it thought the Enterprise itself was the entity it was dealing with, and these odd little organic things moving around inside it were just some sort of parasitic infection. V'Ger's initial probe had no interest in the carbon units until one of them somehow interrupted its scan of the ship's data banks. At that point, the probe opted to take a sample for study. It didn't care which carbon unit it sampled, which is why it initially targeted Spock and then switched to Ilia when she got in the way. Only afterward did V'Ger sift through Ilia's memories and learn enough to differentiate the individual carbon units.
Someone on the BBS proposed the interpretation, sorry I can't remember who it was, that Ilia became interesting to the probe because of her emotionality, in particular that which she displayed when coming to Spock's aid. Because of her hyper-sexuality (granted, only fleetingly hinted at in the film), she uniquely represented an extreme for the carbon units, whereas Spock would have been at the other end, at least among the bridge crew (the other non-human minor character notwithstanding).
It's not directly stated in the film, and the notion that the probe would reinforce its interest in Ilia because she was different from most of the other units isn't necessarily supported, but it's an interesting idea nonetheless.
It's not directly stated in the film, and the notion that the probe would reinforce its interest in Ilia because she was different from most of the other units isn't necessarily supported, but it's an interesting idea nonetheless.
Another real-world consideration is that in the Spockless Phase II teleplay "In Thy Image," which The Motion Picture was based on, it's also Ilia who is abducted by V'Ger and transformed into an android to interact with the crew. Of course, in that version the real Ilia is returned to the Enterprise unharmed so she can continue to star in the series.
No, then it would've taken Sulu. Ilia was completely in control of her own urges; it was the human males around her who were having trouble.
V'Ger's prime mission directive was cleaning up any inconvenient leftovers from the late in development Phase II TV series.
Assuming both Spock and Ilias telepathy was a factor at that point (the probe had just absorbed the ships databanks after all, so may have known crew, species of the carbon units etc) Ilia would be the better choice as her race was full telepath (as you can also see in her later successor Deanna Troi) and not half human like Spock. It's possible telepathy could be useful in its aim to communicate first with Ilia (who was not absorbed as we later see from Spock's trip inside vger, but instead becomes more of a hybrid merging of vger and Ilia, foreshadowing the ending) then through Ilia with the carbon units.
Vger is described as both being childlike, and being possessed of a great intelligence. It is not entirely beyond supposition that as much as kirk manipulated vger, vger already suspected that it was the carbon units who had created it. It's literally not until the brass rubbing escapade that it falls into place after all, but vger would be aware of what it's own 'body' as it were looked like.
From the original title as well, "in thy image" we get the biblical allusions, and Ilia is much more in keeping with that theme, with her being female, and in some respects 'virginal' for a Mary simile. Throw in Deckard as a Joseph/Jesus figure, and the idea that Vger needs to procreate/evolve etc...the whole thing becomes a biblical mash up to do with the Trinity, man's own relationship to a creator figure (parenthood or deity, it doesn't matter) and the need to change oneself in order to experience new things (growing up, the attainment of knowledge, or in biblical terms, an aspect of God becoming man in order to understand humanity...just as vger does through Ilia, in a reversal of that precise situation.)
It ends with that transfiguration, and our regular cast are basically the shepherds and wise men in all this (with Kirk perhaps sharing a bit of a John the Baptist role)
There is, despite people's opinions of either the film or religion, a decent amount of depth and thought in TMP, something that we don't really see that level of in Star Trek much afterwards...and possibly never to the level TMP did it. It's far more Art Film than mainstream scifi blockbuster.
Vger is described as both being childlike, and being possessed of a great intelligence. It is not entirely beyond supposition that as much as kirk manipulated vger, vger already suspected that it was the carbon units who had created it. It's literally not until the brass rubbing escapade that it falls into place after all, but vger would be aware of what it's own 'body' as it were looked like.
From the original title as well, "in thy image" we get the biblical allusions, and Ilia is much more in keeping with that theme, with her being female, and in some respects 'virginal' for a Mary simile. Throw in Deckard as a Joseph/Jesus figure, and the idea that Vger needs to procreate/evolve etc...the whole thing becomes a biblical mash up to do with the Trinity, man's own relationship to a creator figure (parenthood or deity, it doesn't matter) and the need to change oneself in order to experience new things (growing up, the attainment of knowledge, or in biblical terms, an aspect of God becoming man in order to understand humanity...just as vger does through Ilia, in a reversal of that precise situation.)
It ends with that transfiguration, and our regular cast are basically the shepherds and wise men in all this (with Kirk perhaps sharing a bit of a John the Baptist role)
There is, despite people's opinions of either the film or religion, a decent amount of depth and thought in TMP, something that we don't really see that level of in Star Trek much afterwards...and possibly never to the level TMP did it. It's far more Art Film than mainstream scifi blockbuster.
Slight correction, Ilia was Deltan, not Betazoid, nor does V'ger in any way procreate, it goes on to explore and evolve it's understanding of the universe. Given Gene Roddenberry's staunchly secular stance, I'm seeing this whole biblical analogy thing as being more to do with projecting an idea onto the film rather than something that was intended.
Yes. Ilia was deltan, but Troi and Riker were drawn from the exact same template as Ilia and Decker...Ilia is shown using her telepathy/pheromones on Chekov when he's burnt.
The original teleplay is called 'in thy image' and using religious metaphors in an artwork (film, TV, novel) is not the same thing as being religious, especially when it ties in to archetypes common in art and across religion.
The metaphors are obvious throughout, so I am definitely not projecting. It's a nice set of frameworks to carry the story's meaning. You could even argue it's about humans moving past their need for a God.
Being cast in the same template does not make them the same species, Betazoids and Deltans are independent species existing in the star trek universe which is why I objected to
It was less about their literary function and more a question of in universe canon.
I'm not sure about the religious metaphors, I get your point but drew different things from it myself, it was more about childhood and coming to understand one's potential for me. If there was a statement about God then it was in the fallibility of a superior being and it's ultimate reliance on those that seem inferior, a theme common throughout TOS. Not sure that the title of the original teleplay is particularly relevant, movies and TV shows go through so many drafts and rewrites that you could draw almost anything from discarded material.
Primarily though I read into it about moving beyond childhood and how that reflected the time that had passed and the maturing of the audience from the TOS era
I see where you are coming from in terms of the metaphors but struggle to see how they could be so definitive that they couldn't equally be read in many other equally valid ways. What you read into it depends in no small part on your own perspective and mindset, hence my use of the term "projection". Think Rorschach.
If that offends, I apologise as it wasn't meant to, merely pointing out that what to you seems obvious may look very different from another perspective and that neither may on fact reflect the intent of the creator (no pun intended)
It was less about their literary function and more a question of in universe canon.
I'm not sure about the religious metaphors, I get your point but drew different things from it myself, it was more about childhood and coming to understand one's potential for me. If there was a statement about God then it was in the fallibility of a superior being and it's ultimate reliance on those that seem inferior, a theme common throughout TOS. Not sure that the title of the original teleplay is particularly relevant, movies and TV shows go through so many drafts and rewrites that you could draw almost anything from discarded material.
Primarily though I read into it about moving beyond childhood and how that reflected the time that had passed and the maturing of the audience from the TOS era
I see where you are coming from in terms of the metaphors but struggle to see how they could be so definitive that they couldn't equally be read in many other equally valid ways. What you read into it depends in no small part on your own perspective and mindset, hence my use of the term "projection". Think Rorschach.
If that offends, I apologise as it wasn't meant to, merely pointing out that what to you seems obvious may look very different from another perspective and that neither may on fact reflect the intent of the creator (no pun intended)
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