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Why the timeline had to change.

So all of your favorite episodes still happened. Picard and the Enterprise-E is still out there having new adventures, and Ambassador Spock has not faded away like Marty in "Back to the Future." This movie is still very much connected to all previous episodes of "Star Trek." Nothing has been deleted or erased.

Sure in some kind of multiverse theory kind of way, there exist an infinite number of universe which always simultaneously happens. But bottom line is what happenned in the past Trek series have now minor impact to what's happening now. Its all at the writers discretion. For example, they are the ones which decide if there's a Dominion war or not. They can decide to put it in Kirk's time if they want to.

Thus the writers can creatively do what they want. Wiping out the Vulcans or maybe the Klingons or on the contrary making the Klingons the most powerful species in the galaxy. Conqueror of earth (while Kirk liberate earth). Maybe Picard will never captain a ship. etc.

It may be a good thing but they have in all practical manner put the reset button on all past trek catalog. No multiverse theory will change that.
 
If everything was so great and we had a ton of fans and paramount was making tons of money and the ratings were great why did they shift us to this different timeline?

The answer.

We had a niche group of fans, Paramount wasn't making the money it needed to view it as something to keep it around and the rating SUCKED.

Now we have more fans, Paramount is making money and OMG good ratings.

SOMETHING MUST BE WRONG. Come on the franchise is headed in a good direction and now everyone complains the original timeline is dead. If it was doing so great this wouldn't have happened.

Dead or Alive do you really expect to see the original universe? The one that wasn't so popular and was doing terrible. Let me think about that make money and keep new fans OR cater to the old fans who LOVE the old universe and possibly regain the NERD IMAGE we just lost and probably make very little money. Decisions, decisions.
 
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If everything was so great and we had a ton of fans and paramount was making tons of money and the ratings were great why did they shift us to this different timeline?

The answer.

We had a niche group of fans, Paramount wasn't making the money it needed to view it as something to keep it around and the rating SUCKED.

Now we have more fans, Paramount is making money and OMG good ratings.

Sure Hollywood executives have been able to dumb down Star Trek enough to the level ol the lowest common denominator. And we are suppose to jump in joy because of its mainstream success? ;)

I don't know about you. But I watch many movies which are not blockbuster success, but are still very good. Even some blockbuster movie have more depth than this last movie.

Seriously, I think the movie was good but it was not perfect either. I wish for a better storyline for the next movie.
 
If everything was so great and we had a ton of fans and paramount was making tons of money and the ratings were great why did they shift us to this different timeline?

The answer.

We had a niche group of fans, Paramount wasn't making the money it needed to view it as something to keep it around and the rating SUCKED.

Now we have more fans, Paramount is making money and OMG good ratings.

Sure Hollywood executives have been able to dumb down Star Trek enough to the level ol the lowest common denominator. And we are suppose to jump in joy because of its mainstream success? ;)

I don't know about you. But I watch many movies which are not blockbuster success, but are still very good. Even some blockbuster movie have more depth than this last movie.

Seriously, I think the movie was good but it was not perfect either. I wish for a better storyline for the next movie.

Hey with no fans and no money why should they make anything. Why was ENT canceled?

No matter how awesome a great a movie is if it not making money and there a basically no fans they aren't gonna make more.

Would be like buying stock in a company going out of business.
 
Sure in some kind of multiverse theory kind of way, there exist an infinite number of universe which always simultaneously happens. But bottom line is what happenned in the past Trek series have now minor impact to what's happening now.
It depends what you mean by "now." In 2009, just like in 1969, 1979, 1989 and 1999, the writers are creating new episodes that continue the "Star Trek" story forward logically from all episodes that came before it.

If you mean "now" as in Stardate 2258.42 in the latest movie, then all of Spock's and Nero's experiences in the previous timeline are still having a major impact on events. In fact, everything that took place in this movie was a direct result of what Nero and Spock experienced in the original timeline.

Thus the writers can creatively do what they want. Wiping out the Vulcans or maybe the Klingons or on the contrary making the Klingons the most powerful species in the galaxy.
But that's been true in every past movie and episode as well. The writers could decide at any time to blow up Romulus, blow up Vulcan, blow up the Klingon moon Praxis, have the Borg go back in time and assimilate Earth -- and in fact they have done all those things.

This movie is no different from other time travel stories that alter events that turned out different in the original timeline.

When Admiral Janeway changed history, and got the Voyager home 20 years earlier, and we saw this alternate timeline in "Star Trek: Nemesis," that is no different than what the writers did in this movie. The last two movies both took place in alternate timelines that are different from the previous movie's timeline.

It may be a good thing but they have in all practical manner put the reset button on all past trek catalog. No multiverse theory will change that.
No theory has to change anything. As we saw, Spock could follow Nero back through the black hole at a later time, and end up in this new timeline.

So, as long as the black hole continues to exist, there is always the possibility that Picard or Riker or Worf or anyone else could follow Spock back and interact in this new timeline, or they could just stay in the 24th Century and continue with their lives without Spock and Nero.

There's nothing to stop CBS, which owns the TV rights, from creating a "Star Trek: Titan" series featuring Captain Riker in the Post-Romulan era of the Prime timeline.

It would be like the "Terminator" TV series, which runs independent of, but still connected to, the "Terminator" movies, just in an alternate timeline.

The point is that the writers of any particular movie or episode will do whatever they want. Maybe when these producers run their course, the next group will be DS9 fans, and continue the series in that timeline, with "Star Trek XVII: The Wrath of the Founders." No doors have been closed. There are always possibilities.

I think you, like a lot of people, find it acceptable for good people to do good things using time travel (e.g., saving the whales, getting the Voyager home earlier, preventing Soran from blowing up the sun), but when bad people do bad things using time travel (e.g., blowing up Vulcan, trying to assimilate Earth, etc.), only then do you start complaining about the timeline being changed and the whole series being ruined.

When Picard prevented a planet from blowing up in "Star Trek Generations," creating an alternate timeline, how is that different from Nero destroying a planet in a new timeline? In time travel logic, it is NOT different, except that you consider one a "good guy" changing history for a "good" reason, and the other is a "bad guy" changing history for a "bad" reason.

But mechanically and logically, this movie is not doing anything new or different. It is simply the 736th episode in the canon, and its storyline continues forward logically from all the episodes that came before it. Like all episodes before it, the writers are free to tell whatever story they want to tell, and that will be true in the next movie as well.
 
Why is everyone getting upset about Vulcan? It's just one fictional planet. They've blown up many planets in "Star Trek" over the years ... including Romulus. Praxis blew up in "Star Trek VI." (Oh, the horror! All those dead Klingons! Why did the producers have to do that?)

Praxis was a moon and it didn't take out the majority of the Klingon population when it went. It *could* have, but they got help.

Vulcan and Earth are the heart of the Federation. Now one is gone.

Is it impossible to write good fiction without killing off those who are near and dear to us? There are only honestly a few characters who are important in Star Trek. Now - they're all at risk.

Fiction and movies are an escape. If I want sadness, I'll watch the news or something.
 
There seem to be several of these types of topics going so I guess I'll just pick one. :)

imo, I don't think the creative staff had to address Trek Prime at all. They had the go ahead to make this film they could have just done a reboot from scratch. Like Nolan did with Batman, his movies are not sequels to Clooney's Batman & Robin etc. What I feel like this creative staff did is underestimate the fanbase in that it seems like they felt this film had to have ties to what came before or we'd shun it. If this is so, I think that is unfortunate. But it's done... oh well. I'd compare what this film's creative staff did to what Singer did with Superman Returns. What Singer tried to do was reboot the Superman franchise, but remain tied in ways to Reeve's films and this polarized many fans opinions in my observations. But as I said, oh well. lol

Back to the film...

...It would be a terrible shame if the creative staff felt the need to boldly retread where we've all been before.

Yeah but there is a big difference. "Star Trek" isn't considered a mild disapointment like "Superman Returns". On the contrary, its on the path to becoming a pretty big hit. So I don't think tampering with the timeline cost them many fans. And even if it did, it brought in far more new fans. Whatever they did worked. I'd say we are diffinitly getting a sequel. Which I think will have a lot of potential. Not that they got the alternate timeline and orgin stuff out of the way, they can do a Star Trek movie exclusively.

Fair enough. I wasn't intending to compare the box office success, but I could as it actually isn't that different*. What I intended to compare was how the creative staff approached the reboot and how the fan base divided over that approach.

Nolan basically said screw everything that came before his Batman Begins, fans either accept it or don't.

JJ with Trek and Singer with Superman Returns both tried to tie their reboots into what had came before their films, fans either accept it or don't or find themselves struggling to figure out just how it can all tie together AND then hating it or just shrugging and accepting it.

Personally, I've loved Trek since before I was ten years old... I'm thirty-one years old right now. When this film came out I was bombarded by so many haters that I actually sat and tried to figure out if what they were mad about had any grounds... I think it does to a point, which is why these people are so lockjaw about it. HOWEVER in the end I just shrugged and said, "I like the film, I don't care about prior continuity IN RELATION to this film. THIS IS A REBOOT! YAY! The only continuity that matters IN RELATION to this film is what actually happens in this film. Bring on more sequels."

Anyway, just for completist sake...

*Box office results comparison.
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=weekend&id=superman06.htm

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=weekend&id=startrek11.htm

Superman Returns wasn't a bomb, it was just unfortunately weighed down by years of cost due to pre-production on all the different versions the reboot project had taken prior to Singer getting ahold of it. aka There were some PAY or PLAY deals in place for Cage and Burton, not to mention all the other screenwriting deals and prior art concepts, costume designs, set designs, location securing etc etc. Superman Returns was tasked to try and recoup much of those costs in addition to it's own costs. This is why box office wise Superman Returns is a dubious success even though it pulled in 200+ million domestic and 390+ million worldwide. This is a different issue than the fan reception of the project though.

:)

What I feel like this creative staff did is underestimate the fanbase in that it seems like they felt this film had to have ties to what came before or we'd shun it. If this is so, I think that is unfortunate.
No, I think the creators knew that, no matter what they did, there would be a minority of fans like you who would shun the film for their own personal reasons. Your mind was already made up before you saw the film. You obviously were not the target audience.

I thought the movie was fine, and among the four best "Trek" movies in the series. There are a lot of other movies, like "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" and "Star Trek: Insurrection," that I would like to shun, but this movie was both exciting and consistent with past "Trek" stories. I think the creators made some good choices in terms of storyline and tone and pace.

I hope we get sequels, but I really hope that the creative staff does not feel the need to do Ultimate Trek/NuTrek versions of Trek Prime stories. I think that would be a crying shame to do. Even if they did a Khan (please don't do a Khan).
I agree, they should use this opportunity to get creative and invent all-new stories. Doing another Khan or Trelane or Harry Mudd would be too much like the Mirror Universe episodes, just introducing new versions of people we already know.

But at the same time, I would like to see some familiar aliens, besides Vulcans and Orions. Where are the Andorians, or the Betazoids, or the Deltans?

I loved this movie. I've been wishing for a Star Trek TOS era reboot for well over a decade.

I'm not sure what you are implying or thinking I was implying. I simply stated that it was unfortunate that the creative staff felt the need to pander to TOS canon. No matter what they did someone was going to complain so they just should have said REBOOT and made no attempts to tie this in with anything before it.

Sure people would have been mad at that... it's a rock and a hard place situation... but it is an easier situation to deal with for those fans that would be upset by it than those same fans bringing out the Star Trek Encyclopedia and showing the writer's in just how many ways they may have screwed up their attempt to tie Trek Prime with Ultimate Trek.

:)

In short: You misread what I was saying. And/or perhaps I could have wrote my thought in a better way.

Edit: typos
 
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