Why the Resistance to Starfleet as a Military?

[Crazy Eddie]

^ Which are indications that the 24th century galaxy is full of obscure and unpredictable threats and the assumption is that you're basically as safe on a starship as you are anywhere else.

That's sort of the nature of my question about why the Federation needs a collective military. Since the overwhelming majority of those threats can be resolved by the timely application of technobabble, it makes sense that Starfleet officers have more extensive engineering training than they do in combat.

Come to think of it, even the "wargame" exercises in Peak Performance had that same subtext. The actual battle between Hathaway and Enterprise was a foregone conclusion--no one even remotely expected Hathaway to win that fight--it actually seemed to be more of a test to see how much [tech] they could deploy in the shortest amount of time to make the ship combat ready. In the context of Starfleet's mission, that makes alot of sense: they're as formidable as they are, not because of their tactical capabilities, but because of their capacity to jury rig any sophisticated piece of technology to do just about anything imaginable in a very short time.

 

[neozeks]

To be sure, the combined forces of Starfleet, the Klingon Empire, the Romulan Empire, and--in the end--even the Cardassians all had to be united under one banner to defeat the Dominion. I kind of think that would qualify as "special circumstances."

It was also Starfleet that fought the two UFP-Klingon wars, the Cardassian War, the Tzenkethi War and seemingly had the most prominent role in the UFP-Klingon Cold War.

Disclosure: a few days ago I emailed the one and only person I know who has ever served in the Japanese navy and asked him if the JMSDF has court martials. His response was, basically, "What's a court martial?"

Yeah, like I said, Japan doesn't practice court-martials, the JSDF falls under the jurisdiction of civilian courts. But my point wasn't that all militaries have court-martials, just that as far as I know, only militaries have them.

guess how many US government agencies have their own internal "court" system? a lot. board of inquires blah blah blah - they dont house federal agents in regular prisons you know

An internal disciplinary system is not a criminal court system.

and starfleet, a future space agency, also has their own system of internal review, big surprise big offenses are given what are called "court martials" since starfleet takes a fancy to using 19th/20th/21st century nautical terms for themselves

Ok. So we have to take one Picard line at face value but all the numerous references to court-martials are actually not really court-martials but something else. Got it.

 

[T'Girl]

Which are indications that the 24th century galaxy is full of obscure and unpredictable threats and the assumption is that you're basically as safe on a starship as you are anywhere else.

^ But which also indicates that the presents of families aboard a starship is not a cause to believe that said starship is not a military craft.

 

[Saito S]

Nearly everyone in this thread has ignored this idea, but I do believe the only ACCURATE term for what Starfleet is would be "Starfleet." By the way it's used and the way it occurs it seems to be both a general and specific term with a well-defined legal and organizational meaning.

Perhaps, but the question raised has to do with whether or not Starfleet is a military as we think of it.

There is some reason that Picard doesn't think that "Military" doesn't fit that definition, and I feel it's this: Starfleet's role goes far beyond that which a military possesses, and excludes some others.

And I still don't see how it goes "far" beyond that which a military possesses. Beyond, yes, but only moderately so. Military organizations do often engage in scientific and exploratory work of some sort; Starfleet just prioritizes that work differently. And I don't see any role that is traditionally held by a military which Starfleet entirely excludes.

So I've interpretted this line as, say, the Captain of CVN-65 going to Cape Canaveral to have his attack squadron pilots trained to use space capsules and space suits in reaction to the recent crash of an alien warship. The Captain says "The Navy is not a space program, our main purpose is national defense." He's not saying that the Navy doesn't have space operations, they very well might. He isn't saying that "space program" is by definition not a naval one; a military space program could easily be run by the navy, or the air force, or be a separate branch, or whatever. What he's trying to say is that space training is not a specialty for most of his people because operating in space isn't their primary mission.

Picard, therefore, is implying--and in fact flat out SAYING--that combat is not Starfleet's primary mission. Now by the same token that navy pilots and engineers already have most of the training they would need to operate space vehicles, Starfleet officers have most of the training they would need to engage in combat.

Really, all of this (everyting in this post so far) is just rehash. It's been hammered quite a bit by both sides in this thread already, which is why I'm trying not to end up with another wall of text. But essentially, to summarize my view on this with uncharacteristic brevity, I see what you are saying, but I just don't agree. I don't see how the evidence stacks in favor of the roles and training related to combat being THAT small compared to the exploratory/scientific side of things.

It's essentially the same as when you encounter an "effects vs. dialog" problem: when they contradict each other, which is "true"?

I try to reconcile them when possible; sometimes you can, sometimes you can't. The thing is, when you get around to things like weapons ranges and relative distances, sometimes you have to come down more heavily on one side or another in order to be consistent. If you're going by the visuals, a starship's normal weapons range is a few dozen to a few hundred kilometers at most; if you're going by dialog, the Enterprise is plinking at targets several light seconds away. The very few points of contradiction could be explained away with a little thought, it really just depends on which side you favor.

Here I agree with you, though I wouldn't peg the number of contradictions as "very few", personally...

This is something that's been bugging me. You keep assuming that the wargame is self-evident of Starfleet's entirely military nature, and that's something I'm not seeing either.

Really, the main reason for my post is to clarify this point.

I never assumed that the wargame is self-evident of Starfleet's military nature. I think it's only one (small) piece of evidence in favor of it, but I believe you pointed out at one point that a military would probably be seen engaging in such exercises more regularly, and I agreed. Frankly, I wish we HAD been given direct evidence of such things occurring more regularly. But it was never the primary (or even a primary) part of the evidence toward the overall point. My only real reason for bringing it up in the manner I did was to point out that Picard's line is contradicted (at least, those of us who feel the evidence supports Starfleet being a military feel that it is contradicted) by the majority of the body of filmed material dealing with the Federation Starfleet. And that entire scene (with their dismissive attitudes, Riker's "minor province" line, etc) is contradicted by the wargame itself, since the crew is not acting at all like it's a waste of time, or that they would SO rather be doing something else, or anything of the sort.

That contradiction, the basis it provides for ignoring Picard's line and the rest of the scene, and the difference between ignoring that one line and ignoring other evidence on a whim... those were the only points I was trying to make by bringing up the wargame.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Nearly everyone in this thread has ignored this idea, but I do believe the only ACCURATE term for what Starfleet is would be "Starfleet." By the way it's used and the way it occurs it seems to be both a general and specific term with a well-defined legal and organizational meaning.

Perhaps, but the question raised has to do with whether or not Starfleet is a military as we think of it.

Actually, my point is it's not a military as THEY would think of it. That is, the Federation seems to think Starfleet is a fundamentally different type of organization from, say, the Klingon Defense Force or the Cardassian Space Force or the Bajoran Militia etc etc.

And I still don't see how it goes "far" beyond that which a military possesses. Beyond, yes, but only moderately so. Military organizations do often engage in scientific and exploratory work of some sort; Starfleet just prioritizes that work differently.

VERY differently, which is what I mean by "far." The largest ships in Starfleet are deep space exploration vessels; the largest ships in a military fleet are either combat vessels or command and control craft.

Compare with, say, SeaQuest DSV where the ship is explicitly referred to as a military vessel that has been refitted for dual-purpose operations as an oceanic research vessel and as a peacekeeping vessel. Federation starships don't have to be refit for scientific purposes, that additional equipment all comes standard. That tells me that, unlike most militaries, Starfleet has taken a very proactive position on scientific research: not just supporting civilian endeavors, but taking steps to make sure Starfleet's scientists, equipment and programs are always at the cutting edge of known science and exploration.

And I don't see any role that is traditionally held by a military which Starfleet entirely excludes.

Colonization and conquest, for one; Starfleet is often shown in support of established settlements (or helping to evacuate them for one reason or another) but rarely in establishing them in the first place. Conquest, in various forms, is explicitly shunned; Starfleet's prime directive prevents it from interfering in the internal affairs of ANY foreign civilization, even if it means influencing that civilization for the better. In practice, this is expressed in a prohibition on the use of force against tyrannical governments, intransigent enemies, inept leaders or even sovereign nations that harbor pirates and terrorists as a means to bring about change. Starfleet can only intervene with that government's permission, and there are limits to what it can do.

I don't see how the evidence stacks in favor of the roles and training related to combat being THAT small compared to the exploratory/scientific side of things.

You know, maybe it's more specific than that. I think the difference for me is that Starfleet officers fall back on high-level science and engineering savvy even to give themselves an advantage in combat situations. The balance seems too heavy on the science side; they're not soldiers with engineering degrees, they're engineers with combat training.

And that entire scene (with their dismissive attitudes, Riker's "minor province" line, etc) is contradicted by the wargame itself, since the crew is not acting at all like it's a waste of time, or that they would SO rather be doing something else, or anything of the sort.

But see, nobody said they have no military role AT ALL, only that their purpose is exploration. I goes back to what I pointed out many pages ago: "The military only engages in combat" is just as overly simplistic as "Only the military engages in combat." Even Picard knows that Starfleet is an armed fleet, but being armed and being a military organization are two different things.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

I think technobabble really isn't enough to defend the universe. The Federation is going to need armaments and defenses, though I think that planets would mostly rely on wolfpacks of smaller, cheaper ships - death in a thousand cuts as it were. Its possible that Starfleet isn't responsible for planetary defense during wartime, but we know they're there for an offensive. Starfleet is better served circling around the edges of the Federation and spiraling out from its edges (where its not bordered by bad guys). Their usual M.O. is likely mostly colonial support and deterring any bad guys from trying to walk up to the Federation and letting loose.

Also, the thought occured to me that Starfleet (and every other nation's starfleet) could have unprepared for the Borg and the Dominion War for one simple reason - the Earth-Romulan War was the only real interstellar conflict where both sides really let loose. Everything else was skirmishes and muscle flexing, with tactics based more on deterring a battle than winning it.

 

[T'Girl]

Starfleet is often shown in support of established settlements (or helping to evacuate them for one reason or another) but rarely in establishing them in the first place

In the early TNG episode "Justice," the Entereprise Dee had just establish (in the first place) a colony in the nearby Strmad Star System.

CRUSHER: "Establishing that colony has been exhausting for the entire crew, Captain.

Conquest, in various forms, is explicitly shunned

Debatably the events that lead up to the formation of the Maquis was an example of conquest of territory -- the Federation's efforts to expand beyond their previous borders. Aat the end of the Dominion War, the Cardassian were without a doubt militarily conquered by the Federation and their allies.

Starfleet's prime directive prevents it from interfering in the internal affairs of ANY foreign civilization

Primitive cultures only basically. Starfleet will "interfere" with a foreign civilization (for instants) in cases of self defense. Also if there is a treaty in effect. Or if there is a political mandate to do so.

Starfleet can only intervene with that government's permission, and there are limits to what it can do.

The prime directive would seem to be more of a political directive than a carved in stone constitutional thing, it is shown to change over time, sometimes obviously between adjacent episodes.

The balance seems too heavy on the science side; they're not soldiers with engineering degrees, they're engineers with combat training.

That might depend on which time period you're referring to, Kirk was a soldier first and a explorer second, Spock would perhaps be a example of a scientist with (bad) combat training.

The largest ships in Starfleet are deep space exploration vessels; the largest ships in a military fleet are either combat vessels or command and control craft.

With the exception of the aircraft carriers, the largest ships in a military fleet would be the transport and supply vessels. Command and control ships like the USS Blue Ridge and the USS Mount Whitney are medium sized at best.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I think technobabble really isn't enough to defend the universe.

It is in the Trekiverse. Starship captains have derailed entire civilizations with it; Captain Janeway single handedly wiped out the Borg with it. Technobabble can resolve spatial anomalies, it can repel mysterious aliens, it can expose alien conspiracies, it can start wars as well as end them, it can wipe out whole civilizations or save them from the brink of disaster.

Starfleet resorts to [tech] when their weapons aren't effective, and [tech] is ALWAYS effective.

The Federation is going to need armaments and defenses, though I think that planets would mostly rely on wolfpacks of smaller, cheaper ships - death in a thousand cuts as it were.

And I think that fact generally precludes the need for a collective standing military. At the high end of the spectrum we have the EP-607 on planet Minos; the Federation undoubtedly has similar (if less capable) defenses guarding its own worlds, powerful enough that the occasional random pirate or wayward battlecruiser isn't going to pose a serious threat. Many things MIGHT pose a threat because of some unforseen immunity to conventional defenses... and that's where Starfleet comes in.

Their usual M.O. is likely mostly colonial support and deterring any bad guys from trying to walk up to the Federation and letting loose.

No, their usual M.O. is colonial support and deep space exploration. Deterrence is something they only need to do on established borders in disputed space, and this is (evidently) rarely done with starships.

Also, the thought occured to me that Starfleet (and every other nation's starfleet) could have unprepared for the Borg and the Dominion War for one simple reason - the Earth-Romulan War was the only real interstellar conflict where both sides really let loose. Everything else was skirmishes and muscle flexing, with tactics based more on deterring a battle than winning it.

This is certainly true of Starfleet, which would explain why the Federation is comfortable classifying them as something other than a standing military (a paramilitary scientific fleet is more than sufficient for 200 years of low-intensity border skirmishes and muscle flexing) and why they never developed anything like the Defiant until the Borg showed up.

But then, this doesn't really explain the Romulan and Klingon situation, as both sides have been in very intense wars with each other and with other races (and even themselves) for centuries. I actually think that the Federation is the only power that doesn't have the infrastructure to handle a full-scale war, and is mainly valuable because of the enormous resources it commands as the seat of power of the Federation. In the cosmic food chain, the Federation is a fish that doesn't have need any teeth because nothing else in the ocean is big enough to eat it... at least, until the apocalyptic sea monster that is the Dominion shows up.

 

[A beaker full of death]

Those who think a military's role is strictly to kill people and break things really need to pay attention to what the USS Ronald Reagan is doing in Japan right now.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Starfleet is often shown in support of established settlements (or helping to evacuate them for one reason or another) but rarely in establishing them in the first place

In the early TNG episode "Justice," the Entereprise Dee had just establish (in the first place) a colony in the nearby Strmad Star System.

CRUSHER: "Establishing that colony has been exhausting for the entire crew, Captain.

That's what I had in mind when I wrote it. That is the first and only time we hear of a Federation starship actually setting up a colony anywhere. It seems to be a fairly rare occurrence.

Primitive cultures only basically.

It also bars Starfleet from participating in the civil wars of the Klingons, the Bajorans, the Cardassians, or from monkeying around with the internal politics of any neighboring cultures, primitive or otherwise. It is essentially a blanket prohibition on interventionism in any way shape or form, which means the explicit abolition of a traditionally military role (manifest in recent years in the "police action").

Starfleet will "interfere" with a foreign civilization (for instants) in cases of self defense.

Technically, not even then. They are evidently barred from, for example, proactively eliminating the leadership of a hostile power in the course of a declared war or carpet bombing civilian populations in order to achieve victory. This can be easily inferred by their behavior against all of its conventional adversaries, the Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians etc. Even Kirk's mission to Organia was with the intent of his winning the Organians' cooperation; they had to be willing participants in order for Starfleet to seize the planet from the Klingons, and their unwillingness to ask for Federation help basically hamstrung what should have been a pretty straightforward assignment.

Also if there is a treaty in effect.

The prime directive overrides all such treaties. Intervention, again, has to be agreed upon by the second party, AND that intervention may not involve internal political matters.

The prime directive would seem to be more of a political directive than a carved in stone constitutional thing

It's neither: it's a Starfleet regulation that their officers are sworn to obey at all times. The Federation government could (and sometimes does) order them to disobey it, but this only over occurs in extraordinary circumstances (ST:Insurrection, the Dominion War, etc).

That might depend on which time period you're referring to, Kirk was a soldier first and a explorer second

Literally, in fact: he was a soldier in Season 1 and took on more and more of the explorer role as the series went on.

Like I said earlier, though, if we were just looking at TOS and most of the movies it wouldn't be that big of an issue. The problem is coming from Starfleet's depiction in TNG/VOY and most of DS9; basically, 17 seasons to TOS' three (and then there's the pretty enormous contrast in the "Yesterday's Enterprise" alternate timeline where Starfleet evidently HAS militarized, to the point that the very idea of "Children on the Enterprise" is a complete absurdity). If I had to split Star Trek in half and put the 24th century spinoffs into their own alternate universe, the entire TOS continuum through TUC never depicts Starfleet has anything OTHER than a military organization, in which case the disparity with Earth-Starfleet's nonmilitary background constitutes a paradigm shift as a result of the Earth-Romulan War (I once wrote a fanfic describing exactly this; this thread makes me want to pull my old HD out of public storage). I don't think that can really be reconciled with TNG, though, unless Starfleet waxes and wanes back and forth between its two roles like a giant militia.

The largest ships in Starfleet are deep space exploration vessels; the largest ships in a military fleet are either combat vessels or command and control craft.

With the exception of the aircraft carriers, the largest ships in a military fleet would be the transport and supply vessels. Command and control ships like the USS Blue Ridge and the USS Mount Whitney are medium sized at best

How large are Starfleet's transport and supply vessels?

 

[Saito S]

Oh no, another wall of text! Oh well, I'm at work and I'm very bored.

VERY differently, which is what I mean by "far." The largest ships in Starfleet are deep space exploration vessels; the largest ships in a military fleet are either combat vessels or command and control craft.

I'm not going to try and put forward anything about real military ship sizes, since I don't know enough about them to comment one way or the other. However, regarding Starfleet, look at the Galaxy. It is a premiere explorer... in peacetime. In wartime, that same class was seen on the front lines of major battles repeatedly, clobbering anything that stood in its way.

Whether it's just that good at both combat and exploration normally, or if it is refit for wartime - with components swapped around, science labs removed for more tactical systems, etc - the fact remains that you cannot just say "the biggest ships are explorers, not battleships."

As for the lack of conquest: I don't see how that's the least bit relevant. That's about a Federation policy, not a Starfleet tactical MO.

Imagine that tomorrow, a new Trek movie were to come out that took place after Nemesis and established that the Romulan Empire had undergone a social and political revolution. They've renounced their sneaky, backstabbing ways; no more conquest, no more subjugating other worlds to their whims or butting heads needlessly with the Federation. Does their military cease to be a military?

I don't recall ever hearing of an instance where the Earth Alliance in Babylon 5 declared war on anyone except in self-defense or misunderstanding; they never reached out and just said "Hey, weaker species, suck on this" like the Centauri were prone to doing. Yet there is no question that EarthForce is a military.

Starfleet is often shown in support of established settlements (or helping to evacuate them for one reason or another) but rarely in establishing them in the first place

In the early TNG episode "Justice," the Entereprise Dee had just establish (in the first place) a colony in the nearby Strmad Star System.

CRUSHER: "Establishing that colony has been exhausting for the entire crew, Captain.

That's what I had in mind when I wrote it. That is the first and only time we hear of a Federation starship actually setting up a colony anywhere. It seems to be a fairly rare occurrence.

Aside from that ep and "Silicon Avatar", when did we EVER see a colony being established? We know it happens frequently, but how often are we made aware of any particulars? Unless I am forgetting other instances (and if I am, then fair enough on that point), we have one instance where Starfleet was heavily involved, and one where they weren't (though they were still there). Which would mean we couldn't draw definitive conclusions either way.

And that entire scene (with their dismissive attitudes, Riker's "minor province" line, etc) is contradicted by the wargame itself, since the crew is not acting at all like it's a waste of time, or that they would SO rather be doing something else, or anything of the sort.

But see, nobody said they have no military role AT ALL, only that their purpose is exploration. I goes back to what I pointed out many pages ago: "The military only engages in combat" is just as overly simplistic as "Only the military engages in combat." Even Picard knows that Starfleet is an armed fleet, but being armed and being a military organization are two different things.

But again, my only point in bringing up the "Peak Performance" contradiction was to point out that there IS a contradiction. I never said it proved that Starfleet was a military, nor did I say that those who agree with Picard's statement claimed that Starfleet has "no military role at all".

I think technobabble really isn't enough to defend the universe. The Federation is going to need armaments and defenses, though I think that planets would mostly rely on wolfpacks of smaller, cheaper ships - death in a thousand cuts as it were. Its possible that Starfleet isn't responsible for planetary defense during wartime, but we know they're there for an offensive.

We know they are responsible for planetary defense during wartime, though. Even if it would primarily be handled by planetary or orbital defense systems rather than starships, it would be defense systems operated by Starfleet. Their role in planetary defense is established in "Favor the Bold, "In the Pale Moonlight", and "The Changing Face of Evil."

I think technobabble really isn't enough to defend the universe.

It is in the Trekiverse. Starship captains have derailed entire civilizations with it; Captain Janeway single handedly wiped out the Borg with it. Technobabble can resolve spatial anomalies, it can repel mysterious aliens, it can expose alien conspiracies, it can start wars as well as end them, it can wipe out whole civilizations or save them from the brink of disaster.

Starfleet resorts to [tech] when their weapons aren't effective, and [tech] is ALWAYS effective.

So? That's methodology, not role. They fight with weapons when they have to, they fight with scientific and technical expertise when they have to, and explore the galaxy when nothing else is going on.

Their usual M.O. is likely mostly colonial support and deterring any bad guys from trying to walk up to the Federation and letting loose.

No, their usual M.O. is colonial support and deep space exploration. Deterrence is something they only need to do on established borders in disputed space, and this is (evidently) rarely done with starships.

We don't know exactly what other ships were doing throughout TNG's run, but we DO know that the Ent-D was sent on missions to investigate potential threats from the Cardassians and Romulans, on several occasions. I don't think the number of times we saw this one ship being sent on a military mission would qualify as "rarely". There's also the Defiant's mission to Tzenkethi space to "show the flag". Now, it turned out to be bogus, but no one batted an eyelash at the idea when they thought the orders were legit.

Like I said earlier, though, if we were just looking at TOS and most of the movies it wouldn't be that big of an issue. The problem is coming from Starfleet's depiction in TNG/VOY and most of DS9; basically, 17 seasons to TOS' three (and then there's the pretty enormous contrast in the "Yesterday's Enterprise" alternate timeline where Starfleet evidently HAS militarized, to the point that the very idea of "Children on the Enterprise" is a complete absurdity). If I had to split Star Trek in half and put the 24th century spinoffs into their own alternate universe, the entire TOS continuum through TUC never depicts Starfleet has anything OTHER than a military organization, in which case the disparity with Earth-Starfleet's nonmilitary background constitutes a paradigm shift as a result of the Earth-Romulan War (I once wrote a fanfic describing exactly this; this thread makes me want to pull my old HD out of public storage). I don't think that can really be reconciled with TNG, though, unless Starfleet waxes and wanes back and forth between its two roles like a giant militia.

I disagree. I think the problem comes very specifically from TNG seasons 1 and 2. That was when the overly peace-loving, "we're not here to fight" stuff was most strongly at play (this is the source of most of the fuel for those who deride TNG's "socialist hippie nonsense" and whatnot). Personally, I have NEVER seen more than a very small disparity between most of TOS, and everything in the 24th century past TNG season 2. I don't see how TMP or TFF or TUC portrays Starfleet as being a military any more than, say, "The Defector" or "Ensign Ro" or "Preemptive Strike" do. And certainly, DS9 was the ONLY Trek incarnation to show Starfleet fighting a war, so I don't know how you get the idea that it butts heads with TOS' (supposedly) more clear depiction of Starfleet as a military.

IMO, if you drop TNG s1-2, the problem goes away. You are left with a sense that things are more relaxed, more peaceful during TNG than they were in TOS, but not "they were a military before, now they totally aren't; I dunno what happened". The one thing remaining is all the families on the Ent-D, which was a dumb idea that I regard as an (ultimately failed) experiment brought about by this period of relative peace (alliance with the Klingons, the war with the Cardassians seems to have been mainly a lot of drawn-out border conflicts that never really threatened the UFP as a whole, etc).

On "Yesterday's Enterprise": they didn't show a "militarized Starfleet." They showed a Starfleet deep into a long war that it was losing, badly. The war ITSELF was the defining change. Having children aboard was an absurdity because of the war. There is no evidence to suggest that anything leading up to that timeline's divergence point from the regular one (which would be the Ent-C NOT being seen fighting for the Klingon outpost) was any different. And I don't see anything about how they were operating that was any different than what we saw in DS9 when war erupted in the "real" timeline (except for those goofy, painfully 80's silver belts and shoulder straps the alternate Ent-D crew had).

I actually think that the Federation is the only power that doesn't have the infrastructure to handle a full-scale war, and is mainly valuable because of the enormous resources it commands as the seat of power of the Federation. In the cosmic food chain, the Federation is a fish that doesn't have need any teeth because nothing else in the ocean is big enough to eat it... at least, until the apocalyptic sea monster that is the Dominion shows up.

Wasn't Starfleet ready to go to war with the Klingons, if it had been necessary? The Organian incident averted that, if memory serves. In "The Defector", the admiral tells Picard that while they don't WANT a war, they "are prepared to take [the Romulans] on if that is what they want." When it became clear that the Dominion threat was about to escalate into a full-scale war, there was little hesitation; Starfleet slid easily into that mode. There was no incredulity on the parts of the officers, no sense of being out of their element. They weren't happy about it, of course, but they weren't floored by it. They were ready.

 

[BillJ]

Well... if Starfleet isn't the military they're not far from it.

Military log, Combat date 43625.2. While investigating an unusual radiation anomaly, the Enterprise has encountered what could almost be called a ghost from its own past, the Enterprise-C, the immediate predecessor to this battleship.