Why the low warp factors?
- Thread starter brian577
- Start date
Yep. If you're mapping, it you want to take it slow.
I think it may have to do with the idea that in TOS, starships seemed to have no problem using warp drive within solar systems, albiet at lower factors. It seems like the Impulse Engines were more intended for planetary orbit, and all the applications later given to "maneuvering thrusters" in later Trek+.
then TMP came along and decided that warp drive was dangerous to use within the solar system, and that the Impulse engines were suitable for travel within a solar system. TNG+ followed this model to some extent.
I actually prefer the idea that the impulse engines were just for travelling relatively short distances. It takes some of the magic out of what are supposed to be a more conventional propulsion system.
then TMP came along and decided that warp drive was dangerous to use within the solar system, and that the Impulse engines were suitable for travel within a solar system. TNG+ followed this model to some extent.
I actually prefer the idea that the impulse engines were just for travelling relatively short distances. It takes some of the magic out of what are supposed to be a more conventional propulsion system.
Enterprise Incident:
Kirk: "Mr. Sulu, take us away from the Romulans...warp factor nine."
On one hand, they were exploring the unexplored, so maybe they didn't want to go too awfully fast, but they can't have been cruising around space at low speeds all the time, because they were exploring were no one had gone before. They must have been going high warp in there somewhere to explore where nobody else has, hence the fact it was a 5 year planned mission, I suppose. Weren't there episodes where Kirk mentioned they were a million light years from Earth? Or am I mistaken? Sounds like a large distance for warp 1.
My guess is that it was just because TOS didn't have any warp scale figured out and they just chose numbers as they went. In universe, I like the explanation that they go low speed until they clear the system.
To an extremely limited extent, to be sure. It was only once in TNG that it was suggested that warp might not be a good idea inside a star system: in "Best of Both Worlds", where both the heroes and the villains slowed to impulse inside Sol system despite being in an extreme hurry. Elsewhere, our heroes more or less regularly went to warp inside systems without comment.
DS9 was more of the same: our heroes always went to warp inside star systems, the Defiant often warp-flashing right after undocking from DS9 - except in "By Inferno's Light", where going to warp towards the Bajoran star was considered "risky".
One might quote bad weather here: the Bajoran system was solidly established as having extreme weather conditions, which played a central and explicit role in a couple of episodes. Perhaps Sol had bad weather in "BoBW", too? The perfect dark and stormy night to accompany the arrival of the Borg...
TMP appeared to suggest that using the newly rebuilt ship's warp engines would be risky no matter where they were engaged; doing so inside the Sol system presented an obvious double risk, because if anything went wrong, it would go wrong on humanity's lawn and possibly wreak untold havoc. The other movies didn't support the idea that warp as such would be particularly risky insystem - in ST, we even see a ship jump to warp inside Earth's atmosphere.
Timo Saloniemi
I think the idea in TMP was that it was risky to use the new Enterprise's untested warp engines in-system. They'd earlier made the point that the engines were untried, and when Kirk first ordered warp power, Decker insisted they needed more simulations, which suggests to me that it was more a matter of testing whether these engines could handle it than a matter of it always being dangerous for all engines.
And really, it makes sense. A space warp's configuration would be affected by the mass and energy distribution around it. In-system, you're exposed to more mass and energy than you would be in deep space, in shifting orientations as you moved, so that could interfere with the formation of a warp field if your engines weren't properly tuned and calibrated to cope with such variations. But once a warp drive is broken in, it would be easy to compensate for the variations, because the engine computers and operators have determined how they need to tweak the settings to adjust for a particular mass-energy distribution. Hence, the brand-new refit Enterprise has trouble going to warp within 5 or 6 AUs of the Sun in TMP, but the old, broken-in Bounty/Bird of Prey in TVH has no trouble jumping to warp from inside Earth's atmosphere.
The talk of Warp and Impulse power has always been inconsistent not only in the series but in the movies as well.
Such as at the beggining of Star Trek 6.
"Captains Log, USS Excelsior, Gacious Anomolies in Beta Quadrant yadda yadda... We're heading home under full impulse power".
Yeah how long is that gonna take buddy :rofl
Such as at the beggining of Star Trek 6.
"Captains Log, USS Excelsior, Gacious Anomolies in Beta Quadrant yadda yadda... We're heading home under full impulse power".
Yeah how long is that gonna take buddy :rofl
It's actually not that inconsistent from a TOS point of view that impulse was FTL-capable. Warp drive replaced impulse drive as the primary means of going places but prior to that, impulse drive is what got the Valiant out to the edge of the galaxy ("Where No Man Has Gone Before") and it was the only means for the Enterprise to reach civilization when it lost it's warp drive. (And then there's the simple impulse of the Romulans in "Balance of Terror"...)
(Of course the other thing might be the definition of "home" for Sulu. That could mean for example, "Starbase 23 that's just a few light days away" which we know is possible under impulse power.)
(Of course the other thing might be the definition of "home" for Sulu. That could mean for example, "Starbase 23 that's just a few light days away" which we know is possible under impulse power.)
Back in TOS Impulse meant something different from what it later came to mean: Back in "Balance of Terror" Impulse was the power level right below antimatter, not a different type of sublight engine. Scotty wasn't saying "They can only go sublight" he was saying "Their FTL engines' power level is inferior to ours".
yep, agreed. In Where No Man Has Gone Before, Spock makes the comment the .S.S. Valiant was swept a half light year out of the galaxy; and Kirk comments - "The old Impulse engines weren't strong enough."
EG: later i n the series 'Impulse' was indeed pegged as 'sub-light; but early on, as they were still refining stuiff, I believe impulse was juast another type of power and could be FTL capable in the right circumstances.
It could be argued that Kirk meant that the folks out on the edges of the galaxy didn't have subspace radio yet...
KIRK: ..Your system is on the outer reaches of the galaxy. They didn't have subspace communication in those days.
^But "they" in that sentence references the Horizon, an Earth ship. Although of course that's been retconned by Enterprise, in which the ships of the time, including the Horizon (Travis Mayweather's family's ship), did have subspace radio. Although it was limited in range or speed without relay satellites, which presumably explains the 100-year delay. (And also explains the inconsistencies in TOS about how long it took the ship to signal Starfleet Command; it was instantaneous in areas where relay satellites were available and delayed where they weren't.)
^Sure, "they" = Horizon which also happens to be on the "outer reaches of the galaxy". Or more broadly, any ship 100 years back that operated on the outer reaches of the galaxy were unlikely to have subspace radio We could also take that to mean that the Romulan War didn't occur in the outer reaches of the galaxy without triggering a retcon 
Speaking of, is there evidence that Travis' Horizon is the same Horizon that was operating at the edge of the galaxy?
We could also take that to mean that the Romulan War didn't occur in the outer reaches of the galaxy without triggering a retcon Speaking of, is there evidence that Travis' Horizon is the same Horizon that was operating at the edge of the galaxy?
Outside of non-canon books, no.
Warp speed was much faster in TOS. In "That Which Survives" the Enterprise covers 1000 light years in 11.5 hours at warp 8.4. At that speed, Voyager's galaxy-spanning journey home would have taken four weeks. At Voyager's warp 9.975, the Enterprise's journey would have taken a year.
TAS and STV visited the centre of the galaxy, and TOS ventured to the rim a few times.
That's not much different from the TOS practice of starting out at warp 1, really. Every journey starts with the first step, be it on the footpath or the gas pedal or the lever that controls your starship and goes up notch by notch from impulse to warp 1 to the eventual warp 7.
Let's not forget that the homeward journey there has begun only seconds ago - or, more accurately, hasn't even really begun but is merely being anticipated by Sulu. After all, he would be guilty of desertion if he headed home before acknowledging the PADD being handed to him, the PADD that establishes that they have completed their mission and are allowed to go home.
Trek gives ample evidence that Captain's Logs are dictated at suitable, random moments, not when the action is actually occurring; many of Kirk's dictations are clearly made ex post facto, sometimes evidently after the conclusion of the week's adventure. Sulu would have been doing his bureaucratic duty the other way around...
...To prevent the FTL travel caused by the storm that was "sweeping" the ship. Might be taken as indication that (old) impulse engines were incapable of FTL.
Naah. The previous sentence had a nice item in plural that the "they" would far more naturally be referring to - "the outer reaches of the galaxy".
Only assuming that the speed could be sustained beyond 11.5 hours... Which the episode makes look rather unlikely.
The center visits can easily be challenged. In TAS, our heroes only take a peek at what lies in the center, a feat best achieved by not going to the center but by choosing a suitably distant vantage point. There's no dialogue there indicating that the ship would have arrived at the center. In TFF, our heroes are told to travel to a destination at the center, and they declare this impossible because there's an obstacle on the way; the obstacle could be quite proximal, and the assumed destination false.
The edge barrier in turn is a fictional and exclusively Star Trek phenomenon that could very well lie just outside the orbit of Pluto. Indeed, in ST:GEN, we see a very similar phenomenon literally just outside said orbit!
Timo Saloniemi
Or more importantly, TOS and TNG didn't use the same warp speed chart (because they're not quite the same continuity
). But for the sake of argument, if Voyager used the same chart as TOS... the trip becomes a 70 day journey. 12 hour run over 1000 ly, cool down for 12 hours, repeat again Similar threads
