Why the Dominion could never beat the Borg

[Infern0]

Lot's of people think The dominion could beat the Borg but they could not.

Why?

Well on several occasions a SINGLE borg cube has demolished Armardas of Starfleet ships, I'll ask you to consider Wolf 359 where so many starfleet ships were totalled by that Cube, and by the Time the D caught up with it it had apparently repaired any damage it had sustained. Yes one was Destroyed by the Fleet in First Contact, but that was only due to Picard knowing its weak point, If The E had not arrived at that battle the fleet would once again have been lost. Ok so they did some damage to the Cube but It would have repaired soon after.

So twice a SINGLE cube has gotten to be seconds away from destroying eath and only been stopped basically through luck.

The ENTIRE dominion fleet never managed this, So imagine say 100 Cubes decide to attack the Dominion, It would be over so quick it wouldn't even be a war.

By the Way this doesn't include the Fake Borg from Voyager, just The TNG version

 

[Leroy]

Why don't the Borg just swarm the Federation with tactical cubes then?

 

[CoveTom]

^ Because the writers say so. Seriously, though, the only logical reason that would work for the Borg not sending more than one ship at a time to the Federation is simply that they don't care enough about defeating the Federation to do so. Yet even that explanation doesn't work, as we've seen evidence time and again that the Borg are very interested in the Federation. Heck, why go through the convoluted process of trying to alter the timeline when you could just send maybe 5 ships and have it over and done with? Clearly, we just have to write that one off as dramatic convenience.

As for the Borg vs. Dominion debate, it seems clear that the Borg do possess superior firepower and defenses. However, could the founders actually be assimilated? I would think nanoprobes would be no match for their shapeshifting abilities. We don't even know if they have the appropriate type of cells for the nanoprobes to attack. They certainly don't have blood. So while perhaps you could pummel the Jem'Hadar ships, could you ever really be said to have defeated the Dominion if you could not in any way capture or kill the founders?

 

[Myasishchev]

If it's just the Borg from TNG, then the entire Collective's been dismantled by Hugh's un-Borgification. The Borg Queen from First Contact was just the last and most pathological manifestation of the sickness of individuality that had infected the Collective. That's why she sought to destroy Earth in the past, in order to stop Picard from unleashing the horror of Hugh on an unsuspecting Borg race.



Anyway, the Borg can be stopped cold by hacking their network through their drones (Best of Both Worlds Part II). Even relatively unstudied Changelings can impersonate technological items of apparently great sophistication (Chimera). We know they can do so at a nanoscopic level because no medical test can discern Changeling from Solid (Homefront, et al). Therefore, the Changelings can masquerade as perfect copies of Borg drones and interface with Borg cube systems.

The fractal puzzle the Federation developed (I, Borg) is not beyond Dominion science. The Changeling experience with the vulnerability of physically interlinked species to subversion by viral attack (as cured in What You Leave Behind) is fresh in their memory and the analogy between a biological virus infecting the Great Link and a software virus infecting the Collective will not escape them. Thus, it is likely to be amongst the first avenues of attack contemplated by the Dominion leadership.

When the Jem'Hadar fails, not a foregone conclusion itself but one not capable of being convincingly argued one way or the other based on the evidence, Changelings will assimilate themselves into the Borg Collective and use a fractal puzzle virus or a similar software device to either destroy the Collective or so degrade its capabilities that the Jem'Hadar can rally and use conventional force against the crippled enemy.

Dominion wins.

 

[Myasishchev]

^ Heck, why go through the convoluted process of trying to alter the timeline when you could just send maybe 5 ships and have it over and done with?[/qupte]

The real question is why they wouldn't go back in time in the Delta Quadrant, and waltz on down to 21st century Earth without flying through the 24th century Federation first. The only people around to stop them would be a bunch of Vulcans trying not to look shocked.

 

[The Borg Queen]

The fractal puzzle the Federation developed (I, Borg) is not beyond Dominion science.

There's no evidence that it would have even worked.

The Borg could have taken one look at it, deemed it irrelevant and ignored it completely.

 

[CoveTom]

^ Or, heck, why even bother with the 21st century? They could assimilate Earth of the 18th century. I dunno. The attempt to alter the future by stopping first contact with the Vulcans just seems like a really contrived way for the Borg to go about their attack. It works dramatically in the film, but it really makes no logical sense.

 

[The Borg Queen]

They didn't even need to do that.

They could have gone back to the day before "Q Who?" was set.

 

[Myasishchev]

The fractal puzzle the Federation developed (I, Borg) is not beyond Dominion science.

There's no evidence that it would have even worked.

The Borg could have taken one look at it, deemed it irrelevant and ignored it completely.

True. But it is certainly treated as viable by Starfleet.

As I said, it need not be the fractal puzzle. An equivalent device could be used. Indeed, Best of Both Worlds does show that drones are capable of accessing cube functions and screwing with them so badly that the cube loses antimatter containment. Data managed to do this mediated through an autistic Locutus; Changeling drones would degrade the Collective's ability to fight in a snap.

Interestingly, merely from a physical perspective, Changelings could dominate the Borg. The Borg are shown to be excruciatingly and inexplicably vulnerable to hand-to-hand assaults. Changelings excel in this arena, to the point of being undefeatable by means of brute force (particle beams, however, are much more... civilized)

 

[Sci]

Why don't the Borg just swarm the Federation with tactical cubes then?

Read the Star Trek: Destiny trilogy by David Mack. This is exactly what happens: The first Borg invasion. Every other Borg story has just been an incident.

 

[Myasishchev]

^And the first cube we see last ten seconds against the Enterprise! <_<

I know, transphasic torpedoes.

Destiny has some great parts, but that was a very undramatic way to start the festivities.

 

[LutherSloan]

The opening part of the Borg invasion in Destiny is nothing compared to the REAL invasion later on in the trilogy.

 

[Myasishchev]

Just sayin'. -_-

 

[Aquehonga]

The vs The DOMINION

In the tradition of Dracula vs Frankenstein, King Kong vs Godzilla, Freddy vs Jason & Aliens vs Predator

And who wins this, the title bout of the Millenium, of all Millenia?

Neither

Why

Because Species 8472 raids the game

The are turned into pieces of silly French cheesecloth by our fluidic friends. Sayonara Collective!

Then the Fluidix turn the Great Link into the Great Sink.

The changelings are now extinct, having been permanently “put out to dry” by the Fluidix. The Jem'Hadar's ketracel white supplies & Vorta cloning clinics become the Fluidix next targets.

No more white & no more Vorta clones!

Γ Quadrant wide genocidal xenocidal homicidal bloodbath ensues

Now, with both the pesky & nuisance Dominion extinct, our fluidic friends turn their eyes on the ignorant, unsuspecting, vulnerable, if not naive α & β Quadrants

 

[JNG]

Why don't the Borg just swarm the Federation with tactical cubes then?

Why would they bother? The Federation is all the way across the galaxy and much less advanced. What would make it so important as to deserve that kind of attention?

 

[CoveTom]

^ I dunno. What makes it important enough to send a single cube then? What makes it important enough that they try time and time again? What makes it important enough to warrant an attempt to travel back through time to alter this history of Earth in order to defeat it? What makes it important enough to actually assimilate a human being to act as an individual voice of the Borg in order to assist in humanity's assimilation? From their actions, I'd say the Borg clearly see the Federation as being important.

 

[Jono]

^ I dunno. What makes it important enough to send a single cube then? What makes it important enough that they try time and time again? What makes it important enough to warrant an attempt to travel back through time to alter this history of Earth in order to defeat it? What makes it important enough to actually assimilate a human being to act as an individual voice of the Borg in order to assist in humanity's assimilation? From their actions, I'd say the Borg clearly see the Federation as being important.

Clearly any advanced space-faring entity like the Federation would be of interest to the Borg Collective. Given that their primary form of advancement seems to be through assimilation it would make sense to send a sampler out every so often.

Given what we saw in "Endgame" that the Borg had the ability to transport to just outside the Sol system through transwarp conduits, yet in their two previous attacks against Earth they have appeared on the fringes, let their presence become known and made their way steadily towards Earth. If they were really serious about assimilating Earth they would send a cube through the conduit Voyager travelled through and attack. Starfleet only managed to get a dozen ships there to met the sphere they appeared. A Borg cube would tear through those ship and make it to Earth long before significant forces could be brought to bear.

 

[Myasishchev]

^Yet another good reason for the Federation to have a Home Fleet at its figurative Scapa Flow.

 

[Deks]

I agree with the premise that the Borg are likely muzzling the Federation for new technologies.
Also, have people ever took into consideration the possibility that Borg are merely toying with the Feds?
Testing how they adapt to various situations?
Time travel included.

This could all be just a big 'game' of waiting for the Borg.
They spur technological development because they realize the Feds can quickly adapt to situations even without nanites, and most of all, the Borg can wait and play this game for centuries.

On the other hand, the Feds could reach a point where the Borg might not be able to assimilate them for whatever reason.
This is why I say it's risky.

The Borg perceive various human constructs (such as 'death') irrelevant and trivial at best.
They are way beyond that.

Oh, and the Dominion, would never had a chance against the Collective in an all out war.
Neither would the Federation unless they began utilizing future technologies in a highly creative way and devise derivative techs to stay ahead of the Borg.

 

[Deckerd]

Could the Borg assimilate the Great Link?