• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Why Starfleet changes uniform styles so bloody often

All societies try to promote their military. They need young able bodied people to operate within them.

Sure, but that's a far cry from telling your citizens that the military is the supreme career to which all people must aspire.

That assumes they consider Starfleet a military, which opens up that whole can of worms.

It has courts-martial. It's a military. It is a military whose operational ethos is less aggressive and authoritarian, but it is still a military.

Personally it always amuses me that the Orion Syndicate actually admits they are a crime syndicate.

I mean, do we actually see members of the Syndicate calling it that? The closest I can think of is "Bound" (though really the less thought given to that episode, the better).

Does Starfleet answer to he Federation Council, and the Federation President?

We see Starfleet taking orders from the Federation Council in TNG "The Defector," and we see the Federation President giving orders to Starfleet (including over-riding Starfleet's recommendations) in TUC and in DS9 "Homefront." DS9 "Paradise Lost" also refers to the Federation President as Starfleet's commander-in-chief.

So, yes.

The Leader of each world is actual power, the Federation Councillor for that world is a minor proxy.

There is no canonical evidence for this. The Federation President put Earth under a state of emergency in DS9 "Homefront/Paradise Lost," not the United Earth Prime Minister.

I think that Starfleet is autonomous of the Federation, the council, the UFP President and the local governments of member worlds.

The canon has established that Starfleet command officers have a great deal of autonomy in the field when they are away from communication with Starfleet Command. But the above episodes have made it very clear that Starfleet is not autonomous of the Federation government and must obey the Federation President.

I think the question was more along the lines of "What is SNW but an opportunity for more merchandising?"

I mean, all television programs in the United States today are ultimately products offered to customers in order to obtain profits for the corporations that produce them. But if anything, television programs offered via subscription services ought to be less about marketing than traditional television programs, because traditional broadcasting TV is paid for by advertising; in other words, TOS through ENT were all attempts to get you to sit still while they tried to sell you products during the act breaks, whereas DIS, PIC, LD, et al are themselves the products being sold to you by CBS All Access.
 
Sure, but that's a far cry from telling your citizens that the military is the supreme career to which all people must aspire.
It doesn't have to be a supreme career, just competitive with the best careers.

What other careers can you command a StarShip into battle?

What other careers allows you to explore Strange New Worlds?

What other careers allows you to meet new civilizations that the UFP haven't encountered before?
 
Sure, but that's a far cry from telling your citizens that the military is the supreme career to which all people must aspire.

When do we see civilians/non Starfleet in Star Trek extol Star fleet as the supreme career to which all people must aspire? Carol and David Marcus were pretty much anti-Starfleet virtues.
 
It doesn't have to be a supreme career, just competitive with the best careers.

What other careers can you command a StarShip into battle?

What other careers allows you to explore Strange New Worlds?

What other careers allows you to meet new civilizations that the UFP haven't encountered before?

I imagine there are civilian/corporate versions of all of these except starship combat.
 
A Naval Service changing it's uniform designs multiple times in about a century? Who'da thunk it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal...8th_and_19th_centuries#Chronology_of_uniforms

That is true but could also be misleading. In the 1700s the idea of a regulation military uniform was still new and took a while to stabilize. For officers, much of the change was in full dress uniforms. Everyday uniform for officers of the 19th and 20th centuries was essentially a dark blue double-breasted coat with gold buttons: Before 1847 the coat had tails, after that it was a long frock coat, and then in 1885 the hip-length "monkey jacket" was adopted which is still used today.

What often happens is the working uniform of one era becomes the dress uniform of another era. So the older styles are still around, just seen less frequently. And details of cut and trim change, but the overall design is maintained. With that in mind:

  • RN officer blue mess jacket: 1825 to present, 195+ years.
  • RN officer blue tailcoat: 1833 to present, 187+ years.
  • RN rating blue jumper: 1856 to present, 164+ years.
  • RN officer blue undress coat: 1885 to present, 135+ years.
  • RN officer full dress coat: 1827 to 1959, 132 years.
  • RN officer white tunic: 1885 to 1995, 110 years.
  • RN officer frock coat: 1847 to 1948, 101 years.
  • USN enlisted blue jumper: 1859 to present, 161+ years.
  • USN chief petty officer blue coat: 1886 to present, 134+ years.
  • USN officer white coat: 1901 to present, 119+ years.
  • USN officer blue service coat: 1919 to present, 101+ years.

Also proving to be long-lived are the rank insignia: The RN officer rank stripes date to 1856, the USN version started in the Civil War era and stabilized in its present form in 1881. USN officer rank devices (stars, eagles, leaves, bars), 1864. RN petty officer badges, 1853. USN petty officer rating badges, 1894.

So it has really been quite rare for the slate to be wiped clean and everything changed completely, as we have seen several times with Trek uniforms.
 
My take is one of "inadvertent consistency". Bearing in mind I ignore Enterprise... ;) The early TOS uniforms are a lot like the TWOK uniforms -- albeit the latter are far better tailored. There's a five or so year period between when the Cage/WMNHGB/Antares uniforms are apparently no longer in use to when their successors come into use. A span that sees the velour S1 uniform evolve into the doubleknit S3 uniform then into the spandex TMP uniform before reverting -- but with the intended granularity of the TMP uniform carried over. Instead of three service divisions, and no distinction between officers and enlisted, uniform-wise, we have in the TMP uniform five uniform colors to denote the general position of the individual, as well as six service divisional colors split among those. Perhaps due to information overload, they scrubbed all that and went back to the division-color turtleneck and black trousers for officers and red-and-beige jumpsuits with division-colored shoulder tabs for enlisted -- seven service divisions, incidentally. Not counting cadets/trainees.

The jackets with those uniforms are much like the field jackets for the TMP and "Cage" uniforms, so there's a through-line there, too.

And even though the division colors were reduced to three again, and even though the high collar was lowered, and then lowered again, and even though the belt was dropped, that general uniform design -- calf boots, bloused black trousers, division-colored shirt, optional-to-required jacket -- was in use from at least the 2250s to the 2350s, not counting that TOS-TMP outlier. I actually like to think that something like a jacketless TWOK uniform was in use further back, even, than the 2250s. The early Starfleet was a lot like a Space Navy, and those uniforms remind me of an aircraft carrier's deck crew and their color-coded shirts.

Incidentally, those pants had pockets. The jumpsuits did, too.

The TNG low-collar jumpsuit was introduced at a peak of optimism and relative peace. The Romulans hadn't been heard from in decades, the Klingons were practically members of the Federation, the Tzenkethi had been defeated, the Cardassians had signed a peace treaty, we had agreements -- cordial or terse -- with most of the nonaligned powers around us... Things were pretty mellow! As militarism started to be needed again, the uniforms followed suit (inadvertent pun). We got a new, high-collar, two-piece Class A uniform. The jumpsuit, modified, became the Class B uniform. The early-TNG divisional-jumpsuit-with-black-undershirt utility uniforms were replaced with the "DS9/VOY" jumpsuits as Class C BDUs. The First Contact uniform works best as an upgrade of those. I like to think the unused Generations uniforms did go into use around then or a little later as new Class A uniforms, with slightly more FC styling -- quilted shoulder yoke, black bands near the cuffs where the FC uniforms have division-colored bands, open mandarin collared division-colored shirt.

In general it still feels like an evolution of one general uniform type from the 2350s up through the "All Good Things..."/"Endgame"/"The Visitor" future uniforms of the 2390s/2420s (that I am annoyed Picard ignores, and is one of the reasons I relegate the series to AU). Even with the flag uniforms being all over the place, and even allowing that the Insurrection/Nemesis/"Inter Arma..." dress whites being a higher tier of dress uniform than the more familiar ones from the series.
 
Last edited:
The TNG low-collar jumpsuit was introduced at a peak of optimism and relative peace. The Romulans hadn't been heard from in decades, the Klingons were practically members of the Federation, the Tzenkethi had been defeated, the Cardassians had signed a peace treaty,
The low-collared TNG uniforms would have been introduced while the war with the Cardassians was still ongoing. The peace treaty wasn't even signed until the third season of TNG, when those uniforms were being phased out.
that I am annoyed Picard ignores, and is one of the reasons I relegate the series to AU)
Wow, really? Of all the complaints I've heard about Picard, that's one of the silliest.
 
The low-collared TNG uniforms would have been introduced while the war with the Cardassians was still ongoing. The peace treaty wasn't even signed until the third season of TNG, when those uniforms were being phased out.

Wow, really? Of all the complaints I've heard about Picard, that's one of the silliest.

I've always felt that the Cardassian War (and to a lesser extent the Talarian, Tzenkethi, and Tholian conflicts) of the 2350s and '60s were very minor border conflicts, with these small Empire wannabes engaged in attacks at Federation outposts that were quickly contained and overpowered by a Starfleet at the top of its game.
 
I have a theory:

It's kind of like undercover cops and the "color of the day" (so they can identify each other).

In Starfleet's case, it's to make it just that much harder for enemy infiltrators. If they don't have the latest info on Starfleet's current uniform style - and many don't - they won't know what Starfleet uniforms currently look like.

Thoughts? I realize I'm reaching here but it's the only explanation I can find as to why Starfleet uniforms change so damn much. :shrug: :lol:
Star Fleet Uniform designers are ALWAYS on a quest to "improve themselves" (and their uniforms... ;)).
 
So as of the Lower Decks season one finale, we know the First Contact uniforms and the Lower Decks ones are concurrently in use, much like the Discovery and Discoprise ones, or the Next Gen and early DS9/Voyager ones.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top