Why "Star Trek" is not right...

[Crazy Eddie]

Where exactly did we see Kirk grow up?

My point (I guess I didn't make clear enough) is that we never got to see that in TOS, and since STXI introduces a much younger and less mature Kirk, this is something we can probably look forward to in the near future. That is to say, both as a person and as Captain, Kirk has alot of maturing to do; it'll be interesting to see him go from "Talented Young Upstart" to "I remember reading about your adventures in grade school!"

 

[Crazy Eddie]

He seemed to engage them fine in TOS. All I’m suggesting his he shouldn't change much from that.

And all I'm saying is that he hasn't. Had Spock witnessed the destruction of his entire planet and his mother's death in TOS, I seriously doubt the situation would have been any different.

 

[kkozoriz1]

Where exactly did we see Kirk grow up?

My point (I guess I didn't make clear enough) is that we never got to see that in TOS, and since STXI introduces a much younger and less mature Kirk, this is something we can probably look forward to in the near future. That is to say, both as a person and as Captain, Kirk has alot of maturing to do; it'll be interesting to see him go from "Talented Young Upstart" to "I remember reading about your adventures in grade school!"

But he's already Captain Kirk. In TOS we found out parts of his past a little at a time. In XI, we got it all in two hours. And he's still the same person at the end as he was at the beginning. (Well, not the VERY beginning since he was just an infant but you know what I mean.)

The trials he went through didn't change him at all. He just got more power to go along with it and most of that was handed to him by Pike (getting him into the academy without applying, being named first officer when he was a stowaway, etc.)

 

[Gojira]

My point (I guess I didn't make clear enough) is that we never got to see that in TOS, and since STXI introduces a much younger and less mature Kirk, this is something we can probably look forward to in the near future. That is to say, both as a person and as Captain, Kirk has alot of maturing to do; it'll be interesting to see him go from "Talented Young Upstart" to "I remember reading about your adventures in grade school!"

But he's already Captain Kirk. In TOS we found out parts of his past a little at a time. In XI, we got it all in two hours. And he's still the same person at the end as he was at the beginning. (Well, not the VERY beginning since he was just an infant but you know what I mean.)

The trials he went through didn't change him at all. He just got more power to go along with it and most of that was handed to him by Pike (getting him into the academy without applying, being named first officer when he was a stowaway, etc.)

I completely disagree. Kirk changed very much through the course of the movie. He want from a rebellious punk who just wanted to hit on women and drift and cheat his way through life to a person who took on enormous responsibilities and began a journey to reach his true and full potential. Those are real changes.

 

[kkozoriz1]

He still cheated. What would you call deliberatly provoking an emotion response from Spock, at that point the commander of the Enterprise, just so he could take commnd for himself?

He was still trying to hit on Uhura right up to the end. Heaven help the women on his ship if they want his recommendation for a promotion.

Scotty needed to be toned down. Simple enough to do. Kirk didn't work for me at all. Interesting starting point but nothing was done with it.

 

[OneBuckFilms]

kkozoriz1 - Kirk cheated in the Prime reality as well. Kobayashi Maru.

And in TOS, for the greater good, he's provoked a strong emotional response out of Spock. This Side Of Paradise.

As for still hitting up on Uhura: He's KIRK !!! He likes the female form, and that side of him is a hallmark of the character from TOS !!!

Note: He did NOT get her in the end. And prior to Uhura revealing her first name to Spock on the pad, the most recent move he'd made on Uhura was just prior to cheating, and was more of a playful flirt than anything else.

 

[kkozoriz1]

Yes, he cheated in the Kobayashi Maru. There's a difference between a training exercise and seizing command of a vessel.

When he provoked the emotional response in TSoP it was to free Spock of the influence of the spores. In XI it was to remove the legetimate commander of the Enterprise.

Since Uhura made itr clear to Kirk that she wasn't interestde when they first met three years ealier doesn't it make Kirk a bitt of a creep to still be persuing her? Now that he's her commaning officer I hate to think what he'll do.

 

[Gojira]

Yes, he cheated in the Kobayashi Maru. There's a difference between a training exercise and seizing command of a vessel.

When he provoked the emotional response in TSoP it was to free Spock of the influence of the spores. In XI it was to remove the legetimate commander of the Enterprise.

Since Uhura made itr clear to Kirk that she wasn't interestde when they first met three years ealier doesn't it make Kirk a bitt of a creep to still be persuing her? Now that he's her commaning officer I hate to think what he'll do.

Spock Prime new that in the great order of things in the Universe Kirk was destined to be the Captain of the Enterprise therefore the legitimacy of NuSpock's place in the center seat is up for question. Sure, according to Star Fleet regulations NuSpock was the rightful commander on the Enterprise but Spock Prime knew that was not "his" true destiny but it was Kirk's true destiny. So Spock Prime was there in the movie with the purpose of setting Kirk in his place of true destiny.

 

[kkozoriz1]

Oh yeah, that would go over well in a court martial.

"A future version of Spock from an alternate reality told me it was my destiny to be captain so I took command."

"Case dismissed"

 

[OneBuckFilms]

RE: Kirk Cheating

He seized command to do what his instincts told him was right. And his instincts proved correct.

RE: Uhura

I got the vague impression during the end of the Academy thing that it was more of a playful, flirty friendship.

Also, Kirk was not in command on any of the occasions he made a move on Uhura.

 

[OneBuckFilms]

As for Kirk being persistent. If it was anything more than the playful flirting we briefly saw, then Kirk would likely have been brought up on charges, and/or disciplined for harassment.

 

[kkozoriz1]

Or he could just claim that Spock Prime told him it was his destiny to grope Uhura.

I wonder how Kirk would react of Chekov did to him what Kirk did to Spock and just happened to be right. As long as you're right you can sieze command of the ship any time you like. Just make sure you're right.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Oh yeah, that would go over well in a court martial.

"A future version of Spock from an alternate reality told me it was my destiny to be captain so I took command."

"Case dismissed"

Kirk Prime and his entire senior staff conspired to steal a starship, blew it up, killed a shipload of Klingons, created a huge intergalactic incident and were punished by... being given another ship.

 

[kkozoriz1]

After years of service where they saved the Earth on at least two occasions.

NuKirk was advanced in rank a minimum of four steps (Lt-Lt. Cdr-Cdr-Capt) before he was out of the academy.

Also, apparently Kirk was the only one who did anything at all in the eyes of Starfleet since nobody else was offerd a ship, given a promoton or a commendation.

 

[F. King Daniel]

After years of service where they saved the Earth on at least two occasions.

So, only do it once and you should get the book thrown at you, right?

NuKirk was advanced in rank a minimum of four steps (Lt-Lt. Cdr-Cdr-Capt) before he was out of the academy.

Something similar happened in DS9's "Valiant"

Also, apparently Kirk was the only one who did anything at all in the eyes of Starfleet since nobody else was offerd a ship, given a promoton or a commendation.

They're now the senior staff on Starfleet's flagship. I'm afraid that giving them each the power of the Q is beyond even the mighty Federation.

 

[kkozoriz1]

After years of service where they saved the Earth on at least two occasions.

So, only do it once and you should get the book thrown at you, right?

NuKirk was advanced in rank a minimum of four steps (Lt-Lt. Cdr-Cdr-Capt) before he was out of the academy.

Something similar happened in DS9's "Valiant"

Also, apparently Kirk was the only one who did anything at all in the eyes of Starfleet since nobody else was offerd a ship, given a promoton or a commendation.

They're now the senior staff on Starfleet's flagship. I'm afraid that giving them each the power of the Q is beyond even the mighty Federation.

Nope, do it once and save the Earth and get a reasoable promotion and a position with more responsibilty. Say, second officer. They you move to first and then to captain.

The Valiant was cut off from Starfleet and it was during wartime. Not the same situation at all.

Why is expecting some sort of acknowledgement of the efforts of people besides Kirk remotely like wanting them to have the power of Q? Kirk gets promoted three times and nobody else gets squat? Oh, Pike does. Apparently the crew would have been propmted if they'd simply been captured and tortured. Instead their reward is to server under Kirk and be able to bask in his awsomeness. Gotcha.

 

[Jakks]

After years of service where they saved the Earth on at least two occasions.

NuKirk was advanced in rank a minimum of four steps (Lt-Lt. Cdr-Cdr-Capt) before he was out of the academy.

Also, apparently Kirk was the only one who did anything at all in the eyes of Starfleet since nobody else was offerd a ship, given a promoton or a commendation.

The super 'up-jump' in rank was one of the only things in the movie (for me) that was hard to swallow.

 

[Devon]

^^I would agree that aspect is one of the very few that could have been handled a little smoother.

 

[Gojira]

Oh yeah, that would go over well in a court martial.

"A future version of Spock from an alternate reality told me it was my destiny to be captain so I took command."

"Case dismissed"

You can't always apply real world logic to fictional movies. There are many opportunities for disappointment when you do.

 

[iguana_tonante]

I wonder how Kirk would react of Chekov did to him what Kirk did to Spock and just happened to be right. As long as you're right you can sieze command of the ship any time you like. Just make sure you're right.

That's more or less what always happened in Star Trek.