Why not promote Picard to admiral and let Enterprise D be his flagship
- Thread starter TEH BABA
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Re: Why not promote Picard to admiral and let Enterprise D be his flag
Because the Enterprise D was destroyed at the end of Generations.
Because the Enterprise D was destroyed at the end of Generations.
Re: Why not promote Picard to admiral and let Enterprise D be his flag
See Star Trek II - IV. They wouldn't let Kirk captain a ship as an Admiral. Ended up on the ship by circumstance in II, deliberately took the ship in III, and in IV he was given the ship after he wasn't an Admiral any longer. Picard would have to stay Captain I think. (Although Matt Decker was a Commodore and in command of a ship in "The Doomsday Machine")
See Star Trek II - IV. They wouldn't let Kirk captain a ship as an Admiral. Ended up on the ship by circumstance in II, deliberately took the ship in III, and in IV he was given the ship after he wasn't an Admiral any longer. Picard would have to stay Captain I think. (Although Matt Decker was a Commodore and in command of a ship in "The Doomsday Machine")
Re: Why not promote Picard to admiral and let Enterprise D be his flag
i'm still for salvaging the saucer section and adding a new battle section to the D. maybe D.2? lol
i'm still for salvaging the saucer section and adding a new battle section to the D. maybe D.2? lol
Re: Why not promote Picard to admiral and let Enterprise D be his flag
If they salvaged the saucer, it was probably for parts and scrap rather than with a view to putting it back into any sort of service.
It wouldn't be worth it - the outer structure appeared to have collapsed.
If they salvaged the saucer, it was probably for parts and scrap rather than with a view to putting it back into any sort of service.
Re: Why not promote Picard to admiral and let Enterprise D be his flag
Also, remember what Kirk said to Picard in Generations:
"Don't let them promote you... don't let them transfer you... don't let do anything to take you off the Bridge of that ship... Because while you're there, you can make a difference."
Also, remember what Kirk said to Picard in Generations:
"Don't let them promote you... don't let them transfer you... don't let do anything to take you off the Bridge of that ship... Because while you're there, you can make a difference."
Re: Why not promote Picard to admiral and let Enterprise D be his flag
Kirk did take command of the Enterprise in TMP. He was an Admiral at that point.
Kirk did take command of the Enterprise in TMP. He was an Admiral at that point.
Re: Why not promote Picard to admiral and let Enterprise D be his flag
well even if it's not a working ship, it's a very historical ship. we've salvaged sunked ships from the ocean and restored them even just for historical purposes. i would think that they have better tech that it shouldn't be too taxing to salvage and reconstruct such an important ship.
well even if it's not a working ship, it's a very historical ship. we've salvaged sunked ships from the ocean and restored them even just for historical purposes. i would think that they have better tech that it shouldn't be too taxing to salvage and reconstruct such an important ship.
Re: Why not promote Picard to admiral and let Enterprise D be his flag
I seem to recall that Admiral Riker got command of an upgraded Enterprise D in the series finale (showing a future that will now never happen). He made the claim that Admirals can choose whatever ship they want.
I seem to recall that Admiral Riker got command of an upgraded Enterprise D in the series finale (showing a future that will now never happen). He made the claim that Admirals can choose whatever ship they want.
Re: Why not promote Picard to admiral and let Enterprise D be his flag
Why make Picard an admiral?
Somebody please make that case to me.
I do not see Picard as fit to command a rowboat, but I am reasonable. I will change my mind if I see the merits of the case.
Show me where he made a positive difference to the Federation instead of just wasted dilithium and lives, dithering about space, and surrendering to everyone in sight?
Why make Picard an admiral?
Somebody please make that case to me.
I do not see Picard as fit to command a rowboat, but I am reasonable. I will change my mind if I see the merits of the case.
Show me where he made a positive difference to the Federation instead of just wasted dilithium and lives, dithering about space, and surrendering to everyone in sight?
Re: Why not promote Picard to admiral and let Enterprise D be his flag
Practically speaking, what would be the value added in having Picard promoted to command a sector? An Admiral tells other people to get work done, monitor their progress, reward perfomrance, and take corrective actions when required.
Practically speaking, what would be the value added in having Picard promoted to command a sector? An Admiral tells other people to get work done, monitor their progress, reward perfomrance, and take corrective actions when required.
Re: Why not promote Picard to admiral and let Enterprise D be his flag
I can see only one circumstance where Picard would be comfortable as a flag officer. Say for the sake of argument Starfleet has a more ambitious long-range exploration/colonization mission that would take years to complete, that would require a small fleet of ships. I can see Picard promoted to rear admiral and retain command of one vessel as the flagship of this fleet, with his executive officer a captain by rank and second-in-command of both the flagship and fleet. In other words, the real Wagon Train in space! -- RR
I can see only one circumstance where Picard would be comfortable as a flag officer. Say for the sake of argument Starfleet has a more ambitious long-range exploration/colonization mission that would take years to complete, that would require a small fleet of ships. I can see Picard promoted to rear admiral and retain command of one vessel as the flagship of this fleet, with his executive officer a captain by rank and second-in-command of both the flagship and fleet. In other words, the real Wagon Train in space! -- RR
Re: Why not promote Picard to admiral and let Enterprise D be his flag
Bintak:
Sounds to me you've already made up your mind about Picard. But your statements don't match Picard's total career.
Especially mistaken is your statement about Picard "surrendering to everyone in sight." Did Picard surrender to the Borg in First Contact? No.
Did he surrender to Shinzon in Nemesis? No. Did he outmaneuver Romulan Commander Tomalak a number of times without having to fire a shot? Yes. Did he destroy a Ferengi vessel that attacked his ship and destroy it, even though Stargazer was lost? Yes. Did he successfully expose the Romulan involvement in the Klingon civil war, again, without firing a shot or taking a life? Yes.
My understanding is also that as captain of the Stargazer, he made a record number of first contacts. To Starfleet, that's as important as military acumen.
"Dithering about space?" Nonsense.
Red Ranger
Bintak:
Sounds to me you've already made up your mind about Picard. But your statements don't match Picard's total career.
Especially mistaken is your statement about Picard "surrendering to everyone in sight." Did Picard surrender to the Borg in First Contact? No.
Did he surrender to Shinzon in Nemesis? No. Did he outmaneuver Romulan Commander Tomalak a number of times without having to fire a shot? Yes. Did he destroy a Ferengi vessel that attacked his ship and destroy it, even though Stargazer was lost? Yes. Did he successfully expose the Romulan involvement in the Klingon civil war, again, without firing a shot or taking a life? Yes.
My understanding is also that as captain of the Stargazer, he made a record number of first contacts. To Starfleet, that's as important as military acumen.
"Dithering about space?" Nonsense.
Red Ranger
Re: Why not promote Picard to admiral and let Enterprise D be his flag
1. Tomalak is not the sharpest Romulan knife in the drawer.
2. Took him a long time to figure out that Shinzon was a menace and he had three opportunities to kill or incapacitate that villain in one on one and group encounters before he, Picard, finally figured it out. He, Picard, wasted and failed miserably all three subsequent times. I would attribute that to horrible writing of a bad Nemesuis script, but still its filmed Trek history.
3. How many Stargazer contacts were successful? Not many. See 4.
4. Didn't he fall into Ferengi traps repeatedly? TWICE involving the Stargazer?
5. How many tactical exercises did he bungle? (Peak Performance)
6. Got his security officer killed, too, in a wasteful useless manner.
7. Couldn't handle Q either. A certain captain was able to handle Organians, Trelaine, First Federation, Metrons, etc. If Janeway can handle Q, what is Picard;s excuse?
8. Allowed his Borg mania and general ineptitude to take a simple interception and Borg stomping in First Contact and spool it out into a full length movie. not to mention that he let his arrogance get the Fe34deration to show up on the Biorg radar in the first place, (So much for his diplomacy, and his ability to handle alien contact situations. Kirk read his opponents and adapted his approach to the circumstance as he found it. Picard never lost his egotism and unwonted arrogance and got MILLIONS killed, or do you think ticking off Q was the right thing to do? I suggest that part of the reason I hated him in Nemesis was his self righteoyus arrogance blinded him to what was the chief character flaw and tactical exploit against Shinzon. And Kirk was supposed to be the egotist!
Well, I have a preference for Sisko, and a acceptance of Janeway and even the inept Archer, but how do you explain the bumbling Picard?
As I said, I'm open to some positive feedback, but until I see that something, I'll have to stick with the Emissary, the Xindi Killer, and the coffee drinker. Picard doesn't even make the grade.
1. Tomalak is not the sharpest Romulan knife in the drawer.
2. Took him a long time to figure out that Shinzon was a menace and he had three opportunities to kill or incapacitate that villain in one on one and group encounters before he, Picard, finally figured it out. He, Picard, wasted and failed miserably all three subsequent times. I would attribute that to horrible writing of a bad Nemesuis script, but still its filmed Trek history.
3. How many Stargazer contacts were successful? Not many. See 4.
4. Didn't he fall into Ferengi traps repeatedly? TWICE involving the Stargazer?
5. How many tactical exercises did he bungle? (Peak Performance)
6. Got his security officer killed, too, in a wasteful useless manner.
7. Couldn't handle Q either. A certain captain was able to handle Organians, Trelaine, First Federation, Metrons, etc. If Janeway can handle Q, what is Picard;s excuse?
8. Allowed his Borg mania and general ineptitude to take a simple interception and Borg stomping in First Contact and spool it out into a full length movie. not to mention that he let his arrogance get the Fe34deration to show up on the Biorg radar in the first place, (So much for his diplomacy, and his ability to handle alien contact situations. Kirk read his opponents and adapted his approach to the circumstance as he found it. Picard never lost his egotism and unwonted arrogance and got MILLIONS killed, or do you think ticking off Q was the right thing to do? I suggest that part of the reason I hated him in Nemesis was his self righteoyus arrogance blinded him to what was the chief character flaw and tactical exploit against Shinzon. And Kirk was supposed to be the egotist!
Well, I have a preference for Sisko, and a acceptance of Janeway and even the inept Archer, but how do you explain the bumbling Picard?
As I said, I'm open to some positive feedback, but until I see that something, I'll have to stick with the Emissary, the Xindi Killer, and the coffee drinker. Picard doesn't even make the grade.
Re: Why not promote Picard to admiral and let Enterprise D be his flag
Bintak:
Don't think you're as open-minded as you think you are. But more on that later. To address your points:
1. Maybe so, I'll grant you that.
2. Uh, guess you forgot that starship captains don't go around killing at the drop of a hat. Look at your other idols and you'll see that in most circumstances, they also don't go half-cocked and just kill with little provocation.
3 and 4. Off base. Only once did the Ferengi get the drop on Picard while he was in command of the Stargazer, and he then got the upper hand when he destroyed their ship using the Picard Maneuver. The other time, he was under the influence of the thought maker of Daimon Bok while he was in command of Enterprise.
5. I can think of many other tactical exercises the other captains messed up, too. Sisko underestimating the Jem'Hadar's ability to penetrate the Defiant's cloaking device in The Search. Archer getting his ass handed to him by the Andorians. Kirk letting Khan get the drop on him initially in TWOK. Janeway underestimating Species 8347. See? All commanders have successes and failures, no matter how good they are.
6. Yes, Tasha did die a senseless death, but how many redshirts died under Kirk's command? And how many other personnel died under the commands of Sisko, Janeway, and Archer? It happens.
7. Depends on what you mean by "handling Q." More often than not, Picard handled him just fine. He outsmarted him in his first two appearances, gaining time for humanity in Encounter at Farpoint, for example, and pushing him off the ship when he failed to tempt Riker into joining the Q in Hide and Q.
8. So many statements here to refute. Let's take the "Picard put humans on the Borg's radar." As I recall, due to a retcon in ENT, the Borg were already aware of humanity back in the 22nd century, and that led to their long-term interest in assimilating humanity. Also, guess you don't remember the TNG ep The Neutral Zone, which later on was established that those missing colonies were probably assimilated by the Borg. That happened before Picard arrogantly said to Q that his help wasn't required. And he was humble enough to admit he messed up to Q and said he needed him. Doubt Kirk would've done the same, although I do like him.
You see, your single-minded obsession with finding fault with Picard has blinded you to the errors of the other captains and magnified his mistakes in your eyes. They're all capable of making good and bad decisions. I could go on and on about the various follies of Kirk, Sisko, Janeway, and Archer, but I choose not to.
Oh, well! Bias is bias.
Red Ranger
Bintak:
Don't think you're as open-minded as you think you are. But more on that later. To address your points:
1. Maybe so, I'll grant you that.
2. Uh, guess you forgot that starship captains don't go around killing at the drop of a hat. Look at your other idols and you'll see that in most circumstances, they also don't go half-cocked and just kill with little provocation.
3 and 4. Off base. Only once did the Ferengi get the drop on Picard while he was in command of the Stargazer, and he then got the upper hand when he destroyed their ship using the Picard Maneuver. The other time, he was under the influence of the thought maker of Daimon Bok while he was in command of Enterprise.
5. I can think of many other tactical exercises the other captains messed up, too. Sisko underestimating the Jem'Hadar's ability to penetrate the Defiant's cloaking device in The Search. Archer getting his ass handed to him by the Andorians. Kirk letting Khan get the drop on him initially in TWOK. Janeway underestimating Species 8347. See? All commanders have successes and failures, no matter how good they are.
6. Yes, Tasha did die a senseless death, but how many redshirts died under Kirk's command? And how many other personnel died under the commands of Sisko, Janeway, and Archer? It happens.
7. Depends on what you mean by "handling Q." More often than not, Picard handled him just fine. He outsmarted him in his first two appearances, gaining time for humanity in Encounter at Farpoint, for example, and pushing him off the ship when he failed to tempt Riker into joining the Q in Hide and Q.
8. So many statements here to refute. Let's take the "Picard put humans on the Borg's radar." As I recall, due to a retcon in ENT, the Borg were already aware of humanity back in the 22nd century, and that led to their long-term interest in assimilating humanity. Also, guess you don't remember the TNG ep The Neutral Zone, which later on was established that those missing colonies were probably assimilated by the Borg. That happened before Picard arrogantly said to Q that his help wasn't required. And he was humble enough to admit he messed up to Q and said he needed him. Doubt Kirk would've done the same, although I do like him.
You see, your single-minded obsession with finding fault with Picard has blinded you to the errors of the other captains and magnified his mistakes in your eyes. They're all capable of making good and bad decisions. I could go on and on about the various follies of Kirk, Sisko, Janeway, and Archer, but I choose not to.
Oh, well! Bias is bias.
Red Ranger
Re: Why not promote Picard to admiral and let Enterprise D be his flag
^^No. The Borg of that period weren't aware of them in the 22nd Century. The Borg we saw in that ENT episode was from the 24th Century. In the end of the episode, T'Pol stated that the signal they sent would reach the Delta Quadrant in 200 years. That would mean the Borg learned of Humanity about fifteen years before Q-Who.
^^No. The Borg of that period weren't aware of them in the 22nd Century. The Borg we saw in that ENT episode was from the 24th Century. In the end of the episode, T'Pol stated that the signal they sent would reach the Delta Quadrant in 200 years. That would mean the Borg learned of Humanity about fifteen years before Q-Who.
Re: Why not promote Picard to admiral and let Enterprise D be his flag
Fraid not, Red Ranger. The very Q example you cite is the evidence. Retcon or not, by the time Picard says "We don't nee3d your help!" it conclusively proves that he is an arrogant fool. Miscalculation and mistake I can accept from most anyone. It happens. Personal character flaw arrogantly expressed in the face of direct evidence of as superior godlike being is STUPID.
At least Kirk had a reason to ask "why does godf need a starship? when confronted with a similart threat situation to make the correct deduction.
Picard committed the worst sin in my book, that a commander can commit. he was stupid: not once but many times.
Buy time for Humanity? Scoff. Q wanted to play with the mouse and hear him squeak. Nothing Pocards said or did mattered in the Farpoint trial.
Tasha Yar was lost due to criminal stupidity. For that I blame Riker, the dufus, for failing to run a scan on the creature and engage it in talk. he should have spoken first, not Yar. Leaders lead, not stand around and look stupidly on as events cascade around them.
At least when Kirk lost men it was for a reason. Even Archer and Janeway lost people for reasons. Picard? Oh well, somebody died when I sent them into Cardassian space on a suiciode mission. Hohum.
Dreadful character writing and acting, simply dreadful.
Fraid not, Red Ranger. The very Q example you cite is the evidence. Retcon or not, by the time Picard says "We don't nee3d your help!" it conclusively proves that he is an arrogant fool. Miscalculation and mistake I can accept from most anyone. It happens. Personal character flaw arrogantly expressed in the face of direct evidence of as superior godlike being is STUPID.
At least Kirk had a reason to ask "why does godf need a starship? when confronted with a similart threat situation to make the correct deduction.
Picard committed the worst sin in my book, that a commander can commit. he was stupid: not once but many times.
Buy time for Humanity? Scoff. Q wanted to play with the mouse and hear him squeak. Nothing Pocards said or did mattered in the Farpoint trial.
Tasha Yar was lost due to criminal stupidity. For that I blame Riker, the dufus, for failing to run a scan on the creature and engage it in talk. he should have spoken first, not Yar. Leaders lead, not stand around and look stupidly on as events cascade around them.
At least when Kirk lost men it was for a reason. Even Archer and Janeway lost people for reasons. Picard? Oh well, somebody died when I sent them into Cardassian space on a suiciode mission. Hohum.
Dreadful character writing and acting, simply dreadful.
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