Why Not 2 Captains?

[alpha_leonis]

They could have done that, and then, by the time of "Redemption Part I", Riker could have had the actual captaincy of the Enterprise, with Picard having accepted a promotion to Commodore (or "Rear Admiral, Lower Half"... feh) and still on the Enterprise because it is his fleet flagship.

Babylon 5 did something similar to this in season 5, when Captain Sheridan became President Sheridan. He kept his office on the station, but handed over command duties to Captain Lochsley.

Star Trek took fewer risks with their characters like this, but I could see some good potential in storylines where Riker gets to be captain of the ship, but Picard becomes an ambassador, or somesuch.

 

[T'Girl]

...and the POSITION as a captain ...

When Commander Worf or Dax were in command of the Defiant, they were the ship's captain.

And really should have been addressed as Captain by the crew.

Or maybe "skipper."

 

[Vanyel]

With Picard as an Admiral (or Commodore) in charge of fleet operations and Riker as CO, Chain of Command would really have given Riker reason to squawk. His ship taken from him and Picard in the hands of the Cardassians.

I'm thinking it would have had to stay with Picard going on the mission and Jellico taking command of Enterprise. That really would have pissed Riker off and caused tension the moment Nechayee relived Riker of command.

 

[Trekker4747]

...and the POSITION as a captain ...

When Commander Worf or Dax were in command of the Defiant, they were the ship's captain.

And really should have been addressed as Captain by the crew.

Or maybe "skipper."

Yeah, again, this goes more to not confusing the audience unfamiliar with how [naval] ranks and positions work.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

It would have been nice to see the characters and crew evolve over the course of the series, based on the struggles they faced. One could envision Riker retaining his Captaincy after BoBW, and Picard being promoted / sidelined to Commodore (to remove him from "power", while he underwent psychiatric evaluation). As suggested elsewhere, this would shake up the rank structure of the senior staff, and potentially create conflict.

Moore's 'Battlestar Galactica' proceeded along these lines, more or less. It's unfortunate TNG happened 10 years to early for such "risque" writing on TV.

And I agree with the idea that Tom Riker should have become Frakes' main character, while Will was promoted elsewhere. Unfortunately, while creating delightful dramatic tension, it would have destroyed Frakes' role in the series -- unless Will Riker was promoted to Picard's senior (in some twist involving fallout of BoBW).

 

[Takeru]

...and the POSITION as a captain ...

When Commander Worf or Dax were in command of the Defiant, they were the ship's captain.

And really should have been addressed as Captain by the crew.

Didn't Nog address Dax as captain when they were both on the defiant during the dominion war? i think I remember that, Dax even points out that the commanding officer is called captain regardless of rank.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

...and the POSITION as a captain ...

When Commander Worf or Dax were in command of the Defiant, they were the ship's captain.

And really should have been addressed as Captain by the crew.

Didn't Nog address Dax as captain when they were both on the defiant during the dominion war? i think I remember that, Dax even points out that the commanding officer is called captain regardless of rank.

It was O'Brien who educated Nog about protocol.

In the larger question, Worf was never the CO of the Defiant when he was in command, just the highest ranking officer in Defiant's chain of command. OTOH, Dax was the CO in the middle of the six episode arc in the same way Jellico was on the Enterprise. Worf and Kira probably should have been called captain, but they never had been entrusted with the same level of authority as Dax.

 

[Tiberius]

I don't get that. WHy would a SCIENCE officer get to be called Captain, yet the strategic Operations officer in a command uniform, no less, isn't?

 

[Trekker4747]

I don't get that. WHy would a SCIENCE officer get to be called Captain, yet the strategic Operations officer in a command uniform, no less, isn't?

Rank

Title/Position.

TWO. DIFFERENT. THINGS!!!!

 

[Nerys Myk]

Interesting idea. Why not keep both? I, for one, am enough of a Jonathan Frakes fan, where I'd like to see him playing 2 regular characters on the same show ...

Because doing the actor playing two roles in the same scene thing is expensive to do (camera and editing effects, body doubles, computer effects) thus impractical for a weekly TV series operating on a budget.

There's a show called Orphan Black you might want to watch.

 

[Trekker4747]

Interesting idea. Why not keep both? I, for one, am enough of a Jonathan Frakes fan, where I'd like to see him playing 2 regular characters on the same show ...

Because doing the actor playing two roles in the same scene thing is expensive to do (camera and editing effects, body doubles, computer effects) thus impractical for a weekly TV series operating on a budget.

There's a show called Orphan Black you might want to watch.

A TV series made in 2013 =/= a TV series made in the 1990s.

Technology, budgets and a LOT has changed since them making the dual-role actor thing a lot easier to do on a weekly basis. Not so much for a first-run syndication TV series made in the infancy of computer effects.

 

[FormerLurker]

Orphan Black has a comparable season budget spread over half as many episodes.

 

[Trekker4747]

Orphan Black has a comparable season budget spread over half as many episodes.

Again, technology and the tools to do things like have two actors share the same scene has changed a lot in the last 20 years or so. It's cheaper, quicker and easier to do such tricks now than it was in 1993.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Because doing the actor playing two roles in the same scene thing is expensive to do (camera and editing effects, body doubles, computer effects) thus impractical for a weekly TV series operating on a budget.

There's a show called Orphan Black you might want to watch.

A TV series made in 2013 =/= a TV series made in the 1990s.

Technology, budgets and a LOT has changed since them making the dual-role actor thing a lot easier to do on a weekly basis. Not so much for a first-run syndication TV series made in the infancy of computer effects.

You didn't mention a time frame in your post.

The Patty Duke Show. A weekly series built around an actor playing two parts, broadcast in from 1963-1966. Countless soaps have used the twin trope as well. Their budgets are notoriously low.

 

[2takesfrakes]

None of that really matters. The reality is that STAR TREK: The Next Generation did, in fact, show "twins," "doubles" and "duplicates," right out of the box. Picard was duplicated in TIME SQUARED, Data and Lore had a couple episodes, in WE'LL ALWAYS HAVE PARIS, there are multiple Datas running around, in the same shot ... on and on, this trick was used. I'm not overly concerned about being so technical about budgets and camera operation, when the fact was ... TNG was not adverse to showing the same actor playing multiple characters and with seeming regularity. This is not to suggest that Will and Tom Riker should've served aboard ENTERPRISE together, it's just to say that had the producers shown their discression in going ahead and doing so, it presented no problem. But it's not as though the Riker twins would've had to hang out and have all of these bonding moments, all the time, anyway ...

 

[Makarov]

It is still probably a huge pain to do those double scenes when they already have a lot of other stuff to be working on special fx wise. Acting against an invisible viewscreen every episode is probably bad enough without having to do double people.

But more than that the writers were against ever changing up the formula of the crew. All sorts of interesting things could have happened if the writers would make permanent changes... but then again it wouldn't really be TNG. I'm just glad that TNG knows its an episodic show and doesn't pretend to be anything else unlike other shows *cough* BSG.

 

[FormerLurker]

What the producers considered at the time was not having both Rikers on the Enterprise. What they had in mind was writing Will Riker out and having Thomas stay on the Enterprise, which would have given Jonathan Frakes a job while letting the producers write second-in-command Will Riker out of the show, probably into his own command(finally).

As I said, they considered it, but ultimately did something else.

 

[the praetor]

I am glad that the show didn't go the route of having 2 captains with Riker as captain number 2. Frankly, I wished the show had gotten rid of Riker after BoBW, either by having the character transferred to a different ship or having him killed off.

The Riker character was so flawed imho. Throughout the series, Riker was pining for a command of his own. He mentioned it more times than not that he wanted a ship of his own.

But after all those years as the #2, Riker never took the initiative to move on to accept any promotion to be captain of his own ship. This made Riker look weak and pathetic. Shelby was right when she called Riker out for being pathetic.

Shelby said if Riker wasn't willing to step up, Riker should step aside. Imo, Riker didn't deserve to be captain, neither in rank nor position. He was weak.

Jellico called Riker out as well. Shelby and Jellico were right in their opinions about Riker.

 

[2takesfrakes]

What's interesting is that the point of drawing attention to it, even though they might be right, is who is actually voicing these opinions: they're portrayed as assholes. And because these A-holes are ragging on Riker, we're meant to side with him more, stand up in our collective seat, basically and shout at the T.V. and/or Computer Screen, "we want Riker on the ENTERPRISE!!!". I know I certainly have ...

 

[RoJoHen]

It was a realistic character flaw, though. In theory, everybody should want to advance in their careers, but sometimes there are things that hold you back. That was the whole point of Deanna's talk with him.

Riker was comfortable on the Enterprise. He had friends there, and he had built a life there. Would a promotion have been worth it if it meant leaving all that behind?

It's no coincidence that he finally accepted command of the Titan once he and Deanna were back together. He was more willing to leave because he knew she would be coming with him.