Why no Saavik in ST6?

[alpha_leonis]

I recall reading that the character of Valeris was originally meant to be Saavik. I think it would have been a much better story if Saavik had been used in that role, rather than creating an entirely new character (who incidentally also happened to be a Vulcan woman, and protege of Spock's).

I've heard rumors that Kirstie Alley wasn't interested in reprising the role after TWOK -- and besides that, by the time TUC came out she was well-established on Cheers, and it would have been too hard on the movie's budget to include her.

But what about Robin Curtis? Was she not available?

 

[14thDoctor]

Both actresses said no, iirc.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Kirstie Alley turned down all offers from Nicholas Meyer for ST VI (she also turned down a cameo as Saavik alongside Kelsey Grammer in his TNG episode), but it's on record (several "Starlog" interviews) that Meyer did not wish to make an offer to Robin Curtis, as he did not like her interpretation of the character. So he went with his original personal choice for the ST II Saavik: Kim Cattrall.

Cattrall's proviso, though, was that she wanted to play a new Vulcan character, not to be the third in line to play Saavik. Neither did she wish to play a Genesis-radiated, accelerated offspring of Saavik and Spock, which was supposedly another idea they (briefly) firted with.

Kim Cattrall named the new character Eris. Meyer suggested a Val' prefix to make it sound more Vulcan - and, indeed, the shooting script calls her "Val'eris". Most ST VI Saavik lines and stage directions remain untouched, which is why Valeris seemingly continues a few in-jokes from the Saavik of ST II.

Had Saavik been the traitor, the surprise reveal would certainly have been a bigger shock. But it ended up pleasing Gene Roddenberry (a bit), who'd expressed concern in memos that the early drafts made such a "well loved" character into a traitor - which amused Meyer because he recalled Roddenberry not wanting him to include a female Vulcan protege in ST II in the first place!

 

[A beaker full of death]

alpha_leonis said:

But what about Robin Curtis? Was she not available?

By then everyone realized she was woefully miscast as a Vulcan.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Robin Curtis does turn up again as a Vulcan/Romulan with a secret in "Gambit" (TNG)

 

[InklingStar]

A beaker full of death said:

alpha_leonis said:

But what about Robin Curtis? Was she not available?

By then everyone realized she was woefully miscast as a Vulcan.

She made a good Romulan though.

Anyway, I wish that it had been Saavik. All the references would make sense, and the traitorous turn would have been a tragedy and a shock rather than the obvious guest-star-is-evil plot line.

 

[Phantassm]

Actually having Saavik wasn't the problem-Roddenberry forbad Meyer to make Saavik out as a criminal.

 

[Aldo]

Phantassm said:
Actually having Saavik wasn't the problem-Roddenberry forbad Meyer to make Saavik out as a criminal.

Which is funny in itself, since Meyer created the character therefore Roddenberry had no say in it.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Phantassm said:
Actually having Saavik wasn't the problem-Roddenberry forbad Meyer to make Saavik out as a criminal.

There was no forbidding. He noted that many fans might be distraught.

The worst Roddenberry could do was withhold his name from the credits of ST II-VI, as a sign to his fans that he did not approve. He died a few days after viewing the work print of ST VI in Paramount's theatrette, and his main comment was that he thought that most ST fans would like the film.

 

[Unicron]

I've always preferred Valeris as the traitor over making Saavik do it. I can't see any logic behind Saavik choosing to betray the crew, whereas Valeris believed she was protecting the Federation.

 

[SmoothieX]

Cattrall's proviso, though, was that she wanted to play a new Vulcan character, not to be the third in line to play Saavik. Neither did she wish to play a Genesis-radiated, accelerated offspring of Saavik and Spock, which was supposedly another idea they (briefly) firted with.

O RLY? I never heard this one before. That's an awful idea, glad it got scrapped. I'm also glad she wasn't Saavik III.

 

[Therin of Andor]

SmoothieX said:
That's an awful idea, glad it got scrapped. I'm also glad she wasn't Saavik III.

I know. I don't know how seriously it was considered but they knew they needed Spock to have a deep connection with the younger Vulcan female. There was a report on what used to be called GEnie, mentioning that Kim Cattrall didn't want her character to be bogged down with such baggage as backstory.

 

[SmoothieX]

I thought they gave Spock more of a backstory with Valeris than Saavik. The scene in his quarters, the scene in sickbay where he busts her, and the mind meld on the bridge.

Other than the inspection room scene in TWOK, there isn't much meaningful Spock/Saavik interaction, and even that is bascially water cooler talk.

 

[DrTaylor]

SmoothieX said:
I thought they gave Spock more of a backstory with Valeris than Saavik. The scene in his quarters, the scene in sickbay where he busts her, and the mind meld on the bridge.

Other than the inspection room scene in TWOK, there isn't much meaningful Spock/Saavik interaction, and even that is bascially water cooler talk.

You're right. I never noticed that before.

 

[Kryton]

It would have been better if it had been David Gautreaux as Xon.

 

[Therin of Andor]

You mean Xon helping Spock with pon farr on Genesis, or Xon being the traitor in ST VI?

 

[Tallguy]

It would have been heart-breaking if it had been Saavik. Which I thought was the idea. I am glad it wasn't Saavik, but I also think it was an opportunity missed. Heck, on a Whedon show this sort of thing is par for the course. Meyer was ahead of his time.

I always got the impression that Valeris didn't intend for most of ST6 to happen. Her plan was for Kirk to come out swinging when Qo'noS One fired back at Enterprise. Then everyone gets what they want (well, except the people who want peace, and she didn't think Kirk was one of them and she thought Spock was mis-guided) and the Enterprise comes through unscathed under the ledgendary Captain Kirk. Given that detail I could certainly see Saavik in the events of ST6.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Tallguy said:
It would have been heart-breaking if it had been Saavik. Which I thought was the idea.

Yes indeed. My big mistake - I rarely guess whodunnits - was buying "Cinefantastique" just days before the movie's Australian preview screening. I decided not to spoilerize myself any more than I already had, so I chose to read only the photo captions, not the article proper. Under the Valeris photo they mentioned that she was a traitor, and yet the article (which I read after seeing the movie) was not as revealing. Sigh.

Mind you, many people on opening night hissed her as the villain quite early on. Those early set-up scenes would have worked much better for a Saavik.

 

[SmoothieX]

DrTaylor said:
You're right. I never noticed that before.

Woo hoo! I said something intelligent.

I always got the impression that Valeris didn't intend for most of ST6 to happen. Her plan was for Kirk to come out swinging when Qo'noS One fired back at Enterprise. Then everyone gets what they want

So you're figuring Kirk and Chang blow each other up. The Klingon Chancellor along with Federation's flagship/crew are all gone. The two sides point fingers and the hostilities continue?

If that's the case, then why the fancy assassination plot of Gorkon?

 

[A beaker full of death]

SmoothieX said:
Other than the inspection room scene in TWOK, there isn't much meaningful Spock/Saavik interaction, and even that is bascially water cooler talk.

But they played it as much more. The actors played up the mentor/protege factor.

With Valeris all those whole "A lie?" "A____" exchanges don't make sense, since it was a riff on TWOK.