Why Is "Into Darkness" So Hated?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by TedShatner10, May 20, 2022.

  1. Turd Ferguson

    Turd Ferguson Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2003
    Location:
    Kentucky
    I'd rank Into Darkness in my top three Treks. It's so beautiful I have a tin poster hanging on my wall of the Enterprise facing off against the Vengeance in front of the space dust :)
     
    Admiral Archer and saddestmoon like this.
  2. New Kid 99

    New Kid 99 Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2022
    I like the movie. I think it's a lot of fun. I can see how the last act might not be for everyone, but I've always been a sucker for call backs and nostalgia.
     
    GeorgeKirk likes this.
  3. GeorgeKirk

    GeorgeKirk Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2001
    Location:
    The Internet
    I'm totally aware of its flaws, but I still enjoy it. For my money, Into Darkness is more enjoyable than TFF and any TNG film (including First Contact).
     
    saddestmoon and Turd Ferguson like this.
  4. Captain Kris Kringle Pike

    Captain Kris Kringle Pike Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    fireproof78
    You're only saying that because your son is in it...


    ...;)
     
    GeorgeKirk and Turd Ferguson like this.
  5. StarTrek1701

    StarTrek1701 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2008
    I honestly hated it passionately overall when I first saw it in 2013.
    Over the years though I've mellowed on it.
    Cumberbatch is brilliant as a villain (but not KHAAAAANNN!!) and the effects, storyflow and other things stll hold on.
    Kirk getting humbled, Sulu on the Captain's Chair, USS Vengeance, Robocop Admiral.. I like those things now.
     
  6. publiusr

    publiusr Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    Location:
    publiusr
    It’s my favorite of the reboots.
     
  7. Captain Kris Kringle Pike

    Captain Kris Kringle Pike Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    fireproof78
    I don't know if I would call that brilliant in either film.
     
    Richard S. Ta likes this.
  8. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2002
    Location:
    Terra Inlandia
    One of them was Maximum Shatner Ham™. The other -- for better or for worse -- will ever be viewed by comparison to it.
     
  9. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2001
    Location:
    Burlington, VT, USA
    Hey, is there a better time for MSH than when you're fighting an augmented supervillain who already stole your ship and almost killed you once?

    Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan: This movie goes to 11.
     
  10. Captain Kris Kringle Pike

    Captain Kris Kringle Pike Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    fireproof78
    Indeed. Personally I find it over the top and the whole scene ridiculous. But, for good or ill, there it stands.
     
    Richard S. Ta likes this.
  11. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Vice Admiral Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2016
    Location:
    London
    I remember laughter at the Khan scream in the cinema. Up to that point there were no signs that Spock even liked Kirk.
    To me it's the weakest of the Kelvin movies. Cumberbatch did a great job but they should have left him as John Harrison or renamed him Joaquin.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2022
    DarKush, Pauln6, somebuddyX and 2 others like this.
  12. publiusr

    publiusr Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    Location:
    publiusr
    There is more a resemblance there..
     
    DarKush likes this.
  13. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    A type 13 planet in it's final stage
    What?
     
  14. Ovation

    Ovation Admiral Admiral

    Hmm. No one laughed at any of the four screenings I attended.

    (Besides, in story, Spock’s yell is more appropriate than Kirk’s in TWOK. Much as I appreciate a good Shatner ham sandwich.)
     
  15. Admiral Archer

    Admiral Archer Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    So I'm surprised I haven't chimed in yet. I've had a rough day so I am not as chatty as I usually am, but I wanted to put down for the record that I ADORE Into Darkness, viewing it as the best Star Trek film of the 21st century (not a difficult feat to pull off, but it counts). The 2009 film was amazing as a reintroduction to the 23rd century, but the moral questions posed in Into Darkness have resonated with me for the better part of a decade (also I'm in denial it's been 9 years since this movie came out). Where I feel Star Trek Enterprise Season 3 failed, Into Darkness succeeded, because both feature an analogy of the terrorist attacks on 9/11/2001 through a Trek lense, and while Enterprise becomes a revenge story arc that I admittedly never finished because it was just so damn dark, Into Darkness managed to wrap things up neat and tidy in 2 hours and also come out with what I feel is a more true to Trek message. That and the opening scene with the natives and the volcano, which is such pure Trek it's amazing. Also, I don't know how many people remember this, but there was a fan poll years ago about the best to worst Star Trek films, and for some reason Galaxy Quest (yes, THAT Galaxy Quest) was included in the poll and ranked higher than Into Darkness. Which is, of course, complete nonsense. All to say, Into Darkness was the Star Trek film we needed, and deserved.
     
  16. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Vice Admiral Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2016
    Location:
    London
    Why? Who? When?
     
  17. Kor

    Kor Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Location:
    My mansion on Qo'noS
    I would say Spock started warming up to Kirk toward the end of the first movie, as he submitted his candidacy to serve as first officer under Kirk. But by ST:ID, they still didn't seem to have quite the level of friendship that would warrant Spock losing his cool like that on when Kirk 'died.'

    Kor
     
    Nyotarules and Richard S. Ta like this.
  18. Captain Kris Kringle Pike

    Captain Kris Kringle Pike Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    fireproof78
    I always read it as Spock losing his cool over what might have been. No, it's not logical, but having already faced the grief of losing Pike, the fact that he compartmentalized the lose of Vulcan, and then seeing Kirk show his quality in a way that Spock could respect and understand all pushed him over the edge. It's not just "ah, my friend died." It's "Another loss that I was powerless to stop." At some point in time a person hits their breaking point. It is not logical but it is often true.
     
  19. Kor

    Kor Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Location:
    My mansion on Qo'noS
    I do believe NuSpock saw in NuKirk a sort of kindred spirit, as they were both outsiders in their own way. My thought is that he yearned for a deeper friendship, but Vulcan stoicism prevented him from jumping right into it.

    Kor
     
  20. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Location:
    Bristol, United Kingdom
    Generally, I think the problems I have with Into Darkness stem from the fact that the characterisation and motivations felt forced, artificial, clumsy, and/or very silly. Much like the first movie, tiny tweaks would have made it less silly and more enjoyable to me.

    Key among the problems for me are:
    - Kirk's ongoing unsuitability as a captain - this is dealt with in the story but I struggle with the way the crew not only remain loyal to a moron but admire his lack of common sense. Some one reminded me recently that in TMP, McCoy keeps popping onto the bridge to keep an eye on Kirk and assess whether he's fit for command. Harsh perhaps, but professional at least.
    - Appointing an ensign with 6 months experience as a navigator to be your chief engineer instead of appointing him to be your liaison with the new, actually qualified and experienced, chief engineer
    - Spock getting defensive over a new science officer when the ship has a dozen science officers
    - Khan being Caucasian - while I liked the different spin on the character, I disliked the unintentionally hilarious homage to TWoK. It rang completely hollow because the Kirk/Spock friendship doesn't have the same depth and they had already teased that the death would be reversible.
    - Khan's magic blood felt a bit too magical for someone who is basically human.
    - As if interstellar beaming wasn't bad enough, you can now do it with a portable power source, not only to a location inside enemy territory but onto enemy home worlds.
    - Short range communicators being used for long range interstellar communication, without being detected, with no additional effort required.
    - Kirk pulling a Troi and trying to fix the ship himself because ordering someone qualified to do it would make him look mean to the audience - would have been a good way to kill Scotty's replacement too! Plus, kicking the ship better (which was at least, lampooned in the third movie)
    - Disrespectful exit for one of the only recurring female characters from TOS, who, as seen in SNW, could easily have been a very fun character to develop if the writers weren't so sexist.

    The good stuff:
    - Pike's death was genuinely heart wrenching
    - I liked that they side-stepped Carol as a love interest
    - the cast is universally awesome
    - it's a fun roller coaster ride

    I've said this before but a lot of the silliness for me might have alleviated if they had used Garth of Izar instead of Khan. This ticks the boxes for me because:
    - He's a tactical genius as needed by Marcus
    - He's unstable due to the genetic changes made to him to save his life
    - Said genetic changes would tick the other boxes required for the movie - shape changing so that his true identity is masked, rapid healing, wanting to free his friends (perhaps other nut cases from the asylum)
    - Assuming that Kirk dies somehow. When restored, Kirk still has to face the possibility that his mind might be affected by exposure to the genetically altered blood

    Overall, I enjoyed the potential of the Kelvinverse but they kicked my expectations in the 'nads five or six times too often for me to get fully behind the franchise.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2022
    Nyotarules likes this.