This is another spin-off thread. I felt we've mentioned this stuff before about the two actors, and quite recent actually. Couldn't this new thread be merged onto the pre-existing thread about the 2 Saaviks???
Why is Alley prefered so much over Curtis for Saavik?
- Thread starter Tribble puncher
- Start date
Are you axing me that?
Also, Ben Cross.
As Tenacity mentioned, part of it could be the direction - I don't know for sure if it's the case, but it could be that Meyer and Nimoy wanted the acresses to portray Saavik differently to suit their own visions of the character. Equally, it could be the actresses' own interpretations of the character - being the second person to play Saavik, Curtis may have weanted to put her own spin on it rather than just doing an impression of Alley's Saavik.
And as Donago and Bry_Sinclair said, in TWOK she was originally meant to be half-Romulan, so this is how Alley played her, though all mention of it was removed from the film. And in TSFS, this aspect of the character was completely removed, so Curtis played her a bit more straight and 'Vulcan-like'. Honestly I don't have a problem with it, though I'm fairly forgiving of discontinuity within Star Trek (honestly, I think you kind of have to be else you'd drive yourself crazy). I did think her "David is dead" line was delivered very well and showed that maybe she was struggling to keep her emotions in check.
And as Donago and Bry_Sinclair said, in TWOK she was originally meant to be half-Romulan, so this is how Alley played her, though all mention of it was removed from the film. And in TSFS, this aspect of the character was completely removed, so Curtis played her a bit more straight and 'Vulcan-like'. Honestly I don't have a problem with it, though I'm fairly forgiving of discontinuity within Star Trek (honestly, I think you kind of have to be else you'd drive yourself crazy). I did think her "David is dead" line was delivered very well and showed that maybe she was struggling to keep her emotions in check.
There's way too much emphasis on this board for making sure everything belongs in its own little box, instead of just letting conversations flow organically. Thread drift is inevitable on message boards. Embrace it.
Yes. With multiple threads about the Saavik topic I could've sworn we've had this same topic brought up in a Saavik/ Valeris debate. [shrug] If you don't have a clue about what I'm saying then carry on.
So, in ST:VI, would you have preferred Curtis' Saavik instead of Alley's version than a new Vulcan named Valeris? The death of David would've created an excuse to why she would've hypothetically participated in the assassination plot and disrupting the peace talks in ST:VI, if it's true Curtis had feelings for him.
It's not a drift, it's more like an extension from the Saavik/Valeris thread. Members were already discussing their preferences of the actor's ALLEY, CATTRALL, & CURTIS portrayals there. Sigh. Oh well, lets have two more of these spin-offs.
Alley's Saavik was simply more interesting. Perhaps it was due to the original half-Romulan character concept coming through, I don't know. Curtis was robotic. Because of that she was probably a better vulcan than Alley but certainly not as interesting. Plus, it has to be mentioned that Alley was smoking hot. Yeah, superficial but true and that definitely plays into the discussion. Not that Curtis wasn't attractive but not in the same league as Alley.
I find vulcans more interesting when they aren't completely emotionless. Spock was a very interesting vulcan. Tuvok, not so much. On the other hand, the new movies making Spock even more emotional jumps the shark for me. It doesn't help that I keep thinking that Quinto's Spock will go all Sylar and start sawing off skull caps.
I agree that Curtis played a better Vulcan but Alley had more charisma.
I don't think she acted half-Romulan, more like 90% Human and 10% Vulcan. If they'd said Saavik was 3/4 human then I'd say that Alley had the better Saavik performance.
Despite this I wouldn't have wanted to change Curtis for Alley in TWOK.
You may be right. On the other hand: I just like -- no! make that LOVE!!! -- talking about STAR TREK in any and every thread. Let there be more Saavik comparison threads, I say! After all ... paper is cheap ... and Internet postings are even cheaper.
If you have an issue with it ping the moderator instead of sighing melodramatically.
How about three or four?
I don't think Curtis would have worked in TWOK, some of the stuff Alley's Saavik said would never have been uttered by the Curtis version of the character. (like the elevator scene, tears at Spocks funeral, making up Regs to join an away mission, etc.) Honestly, I wonder if it would have been better to simply have Curtis play the same role in the films, but as a different female Vulcan, she could have joined Starfleet because she was inspired by Spock, but not known him directly.
I liked both of them. When I think of Saavik I think of Curtis, though, because as a kid I saw TSFS first. Yeah, that really killed the impact of seeing Spock die later on after I knew he was already dead, but I was like 6. I also couldn't get over Saavik being the lady from Cheers, but again, I was like 6.
Performance wise, I felt like Alley played the more layered version of Saavik. Later on, learning that she was suppose to be half Romulan (which I consider true in headcanon) made her performance even better. But with Curtis, I always enjoyed her take on Vulcan and as was stated above, her delivery for, "David is dead," was excellent. I don't care what anyone says, you can hear the pain in her voice underneath all that robot.
Performance wise, I felt like Alley played the more layered version of Saavik. Later on, learning that she was suppose to be half Romulan (which I consider true in headcanon) made her performance even better. But with Curtis, I always enjoyed her take on Vulcan and as was stated above, her delivery for, "David is dead," was excellent. I don't care what anyone says, you can hear the pain in her voice underneath all that robot.
Saavik's backstory, at least in the novelization, is that she's half-Romulan. So Kirstie Alley plays a half-Vulcan/half-Romulan, and does so very well.
Robin Curtis has the personality of a piece of cardboard.
I've weighed in on this before (as this is not exactly a new topic of debate).
I think Nimoy, more than anybody else, truly "got" the characterizations in Star Trek. Star Trek III in particular, if you look at it as purely a character ensemble piece, is a much better film than people give it credit for.
However, the one fly in the ointment is Saavik. For whatever reason, Robin Curtis was simply miscast. Every actor has a natural personality. Robin Curtis has a perky and girly-girl personality sort of like Amy Adams. She's the last type of person I'd ever cast as a Vulcan. Kirstie Alley has a standoffish ice-queen personality with a sultry, smoky voice which is PERFECT for a Vulcan. Jolene Blaloch on Enterprise also fell in-line with the pattern of female vulcans being sort of pouty and standoffish. That's what I expect.
Nimoy understood how to ride the line on playing vulcans himself but when it came time to tailor the Saavik character it was a double-whammy to a) pick Robin Curtis and b) have her deliver lines like little more than a robot with a blank deer-in-the-headlights stare.
So the overall effect is the worst of both worlds. She's trying to play the character too emotionless..and failing to be convincing at it.
I don't blame her. She was just wrong for the role.
I think Nimoy, more than anybody else, truly "got" the characterizations in Star Trek. Star Trek III in particular, if you look at it as purely a character ensemble piece, is a much better film than people give it credit for.
However, the one fly in the ointment is Saavik. For whatever reason, Robin Curtis was simply miscast. Every actor has a natural personality. Robin Curtis has a perky and girly-girl personality sort of like Amy Adams. She's the last type of person I'd ever cast as a Vulcan. Kirstie Alley has a standoffish ice-queen personality with a sultry, smoky voice which is PERFECT for a Vulcan. Jolene Blaloch on Enterprise also fell in-line with the pattern of female vulcans being sort of pouty and standoffish. That's what I expect.
Nimoy understood how to ride the line on playing vulcans himself but when it came time to tailor the Saavik character it was a double-whammy to a) pick Robin Curtis and b) have her deliver lines like little more than a robot with a blank deer-in-the-headlights stare.
So the overall effect is the worst of both worlds. She's trying to play the character too emotionless..and failing to be convincing at it.
I don't blame her. She was just wrong for the role.
I don't know that it's the actors per say. It's the character interpretations. I liked Saavik in TWoK. Much like how Nimoy plays Spock, She played it like a real person. Curtis (& many others who play Vulcans) Take the idea too far. It's still supposed to be a person, a 3 dimensional character. The being on screen has to give the audience something or what's the point? I will give Quinto credit for at least understanding that, in his interpretation
