Holy shit, I swear I just don't care how well Disco or any Star Trek is doing in comparison with Mayor of Kingstown, SEAL Team or whatever.
Spoilers Why I think Discovery is ending after season 4
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For real. It's irrelevant. Smoke and mirrors. A distraction meant to lend credence to an incorrect hypothesis. Sound and fury, signifying nothing.
Tell that to the bean counters at Paramount+, not us. Star Trek is doing well enough that Paramount+ is keeping these series going. When it's not, they'll stop making them. So clearly they're privy to business information you're not, no matter how authoritative you try to make yourself sound.Efficiency. If ViacomCBS spend less than half the budget for a show that gets equal or more views, that means they are not spending money efficiently.
https://flixpatrol.com/about/how-it-works/
And this is one data point.
We have viewership numbers from Canada (see above), that people conveniently dismiss or ignore.
Star Trek Discovery on Netflix in 2021 in Germany is ranked at 76 in the Top TV shows, one rank below Supergirl, and in the UK ranked at 109:
https://flixpatrol.com/top10/netflix/germany/2021/full/#netflix-2
https://flixpatrol.com/top10/netflix/united-kingdom/2021/full/#netflix-2
Nielsen has streaming charts now, Discovery is not on there.
Social media engagement is low, YouTube views for reviews are low, the number of ratings on IMDB are low.
The A.V. Club announced, mid-season, that would stop writing weekly Discovery reviews, because of low readership.
(In related news, TrekCulture, the biggest Star Trek YouTube channel, announced, also mid-season, that would stop making weekly Prodigy reviews, because of low view count. https://twitter.com/TrekCulture/status/1479169745886892037 )
Because of all these data points combined I come to the conclusion that Discovery (and NuTrek as a whole) is not very popular. It is not must-see television, NuTrek will never have the cultural impact old Trek had. The biggest impact NuTrek had is people are making of NuTrek, or people like NuTrek make fun of people who dislike NuTrek ("Kurtzman didn't get fired!").
Where is the proof, that the Star Trek fanbase is expanding?
I hope that ViacomCBS opens up as Netflix did about audience numbers or that external audience measurement services get a better inside into Paramount Plus. Either that or, unless something unexpected happens, I guess we have to wait for the next movie to get a benchmark about the state of Star Trek.
PS: All the discussion about Discovery's popularity aside, the popularity of Discovery (or Nutrek) is not my main concern (despite my reputation for being the "chart guy") but the quality of the stories. That is the core of the problem, the bad storytelling. NuTrek is bad storytelling, it's bad SciFi and it's bad Star Trek. "The Burn", a crying child, really? It's a joke. Another galaxy-ending threat? The endless therapy session? Trauma and grief in the morning and grief and trauma in the evening. All my arguments about popularity are just supplemental arguments, this stuff is not catching on.
"But it's not catching on!" You've confused me with someone who gives a shit. All I know is they're still making more. When they stop or they slow down, then I'll talk about this more seriously... but when I do, it's not going to be with someone who wants the show to fail and is using TrekBBS as practice for trying out to be a FOX News pundit.
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The last episode from "Mayor of Kingstown" is from "January 9, 2022" and it is in place 3.
Frasier, a show that ended in 2003, is in place 9.
All the shows from places 4 to 10 are old archived episodes from liner network TV.
Yesterday Hawaii Five-0, a show that ended in April 2020 was in place 10.
The last episode of SEAL Team in 2021 was released on December 5, 2021, yet three and four days after the reals of Discovery episodes 4x06 in week 51, and 4x07 in week 52, the viewership of Discovery dropped and SEAL Team took the number one spot.
SEAL Team, a show with less than half the budget of Discovery is competing for the number one spot.
it's interesting to see someone taking a hypothesis right into the critical mass of full blown bonkersville, a bit like being present at the birth of a new star.
How well I'm entertain on Thursday is my only metric. If it's canceled tomorrow, I'll be disappointed. But I'll live.
Clearly Kurztman and his goons have dirt on the P+ social team or they wouldn't be posting such blatant lies, am I right?
If you don’t like discovery then don’t watch it and move on with your life. I think looking into streaming charts that we don’t know the source or accuracy of or ratings of other countries to try to prove a show you don’t like or isn’t popular as popular as other shows is sad. I’ve seen people do it on Twitter and follow how many views discovery videos have and how many times it’s searched. It’s pathetic.
The show is doing well enough to now be renewed for a 5th season, have a spin-off on the way, and the franchise is obviously doing well enough to have other shows picked up and renewed. Sorry you don’t like the show but nothing you post will prove it’s a failure because the renewals and new shows is what matters and that’s what proves it’s not.
There are lots of shows I don’t like that have gone on for years. Some shows I used to like and stopped watching years ago, like walking dead. I don’t go to forums of those sites to try to prove ratings are down or compare it to other shows, etc…I just forget about them and move on to things I enjoy. If shows I don’t like are successful that’s good for the fans of those shows. There’s lots of stuff out there I do like.
The show is doing well enough to now be renewed for a 5th season, have a spin-off on the way, and the franchise is obviously doing well enough to have other shows picked up and renewed. Sorry you don’t like the show but nothing you post will prove it’s a failure because the renewals and new shows is what matters and that’s what proves it’s not.
There are lots of shows I don’t like that have gone on for years. Some shows I used to like and stopped watching years ago, like walking dead. I don’t go to forums of those sites to try to prove ratings are down or compare it to other shows, etc…I just forget about them and move on to things I enjoy. If shows I don’t like are successful that’s good for the fans of those shows. There’s lots of stuff out there I do like.
So...IDIC?
This is the era of Peak TV. There are literally so many high-quality shows out there that it's impossible for one person to watch it all. And that includes plenty of other space shows; all 726 episodes of TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT; and all 10 original films from TMP to NEM. There is truly no reason to hate-watch a show unless you just enjoy shitting on something.
Who was expecting any modern TV show to have the cultural impact of TOS? You and 0 others. The world has changed, television has changed.
They're making lots more of the "NuTrek" and thus I am getting exactly what I want from CBS.
All your charts and graphs, and all you really mean to say is...
What a verbose waste of time.
Which old Trek? Aside from TOS and TNG, the cultural impact of the other series - especially outside the US - is negligible. DS9, Voyager and Enterprise all bled many viewers over the course of their runs. TNG's film series rapidly faded into irrelevance.
Much of "old Trek" drove away fans. "NuTrek" has revived a franchise which had been run into the ground.
Based on the fact that ViacomCBS paid Netflix a lot of money to get Discovery off the service to use it as an original for the international Paramount+ services I come to the conclusion that it is popular enough to justify that move.
Then there's the fact that Discovery led to a revival of televised Star Trek, we just had a bunch of renewals and start dates announced. In the 90s the maximum number of shows that aired new episodes in the same year was two, in 2022 it will be FIVE but sure, Discovery is not very popular, it will end after season 5 at the earliest, what a flop.
And btw, the reason shows like Frasier, SEAL Team and Hawaii 5-0 are watched more than Discovery might simply be that there are more episodes to watch, right now 49 Discovery episodes are available, SEAL Team is at 93, Hawaii 5-0 has 240 and Frasier 264.
And if you looked at it globally, I'd wager that even TNG wasn't the immortal cultural phenomenon some of its fans like to portray it as. The "Picard facepalm" and "WTF is this" memes aside, it's not that well known outside the States. Anecdotal evidence of course, but most people I knew in Europe would, upon hearing the words "Star Trek", ask if it was that TV Show with Dr. Spock and the pointy-eared green Martians, with maybe a few people also recalling the name Captain Keerk or Quirk. In my native Hungary, it was only ever broadcast on cable, in an era where 9 out of 10 people only had terrestrial TV.
2022 is going to be the first year in history where there is literally a new Star Trek episode every week, with five different series in simultaneous production! But go on about how nuTrek isn't that popular and ViacomCBS, a publicly traded company, is apparently just intentionally setting ~$267 million a year* on fire for shits and giggles.
* Estimate. News sources cite average budget of $8-8.5 million per episode of DIS and $9 million per episode of PIC. Assumes $8.5 for both DIS and SNW. News sources cite upper end of average costs for animated series at $350,000/episode. Assumes 10-episide seasons for all five shows.
* Estimate. News sources cite average budget of $8-8.5 million per episode of DIS and $9 million per episode of PIC. Assumes $8.5 for both DIS and SNW. News sources cite upper end of average costs for animated series at $350,000/episode. Assumes 10-episide seasons for all five shows.
Not sure about every week. Let's see.
- Official schedule ends with Strange New Worlds 10th episode on July 7th.
- We know Lower Decks is going to air over the summer. Presume it starts the following week. That gets us to September 15
- If Prodigy's next 10 episode order comes next, that gets us to November 24
- What could come next? Probably only Picard Season 3, since it's currently filming, Discovery Season 5 won't be ready yet, and everything else will have aired sooner. Will they have it premier in December, when Season 2 only premiered in March? Not sure.
We'll probably need to update this thread title to "Why I Think Discovery Is Ending After Season 5". 
So if this guy's bullshit stats were trying to sway me of something, he failed miserably.
I've never even heard of SEAL Team. I've seen some Hawaii 5-0 (I assume we're talking about the 2010s version) and "ehhh..." It's purely cookie-cutter and disposable from what I've seen. The most memorable thing is the opening theme (which everyone knows), and they got that from the '70s version. I get why people like Frasier, and I can see that it's a good show, but I've personally always been neutral about it. My brother watched it when it was on, and sometimes I'd watch with him, but otherwise I wouldn't have seen much if any.
So if this guy's bullshit stats were trying to sway me of something, he failed miserably.
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We'll probably need to update this thread title to "Why I Think Discovery Is Ending After Season 5".
They've already been doing that since season 1 LOL and they'll keep doing it until the show ends, and they'll do it for future Star Trek shows as well.
Speaking of his stats, I do know when Discovery is airing new episodes it is frequently first on the P+ app for several days on its most popular list. Sometimes it goes to 2 or 3 after a new episode of 1883 and Mayor. Right now Discovery is 4th on it's trending originals list (behind Seal Team - which just had a new episode a few day sago), 1883 (just had a new episode on Sunday), and Mayor of Kingstown. A few weeks ago Discovery was ahead of all of them, and recently I noticed Lower Decks was in the top list of all shows despite not having new episodes for months, and I saw Picard on the most popular list of everything available on Paramount + recently despite not having a new episode in almost 2 years.
Makes sense then why Ross Perot -- sorry, I mean Chart Guy -- didn't show any stats for that week.
But on a more serious note: I'm actually interested in seeing 1883.
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So Discovery was the number one show on the service for most of the month, 17 out of 31 days of December ,and I just randomly checked 4 days when it wasn't #1 and it was 2nd or 3rd...and you actually think this is a failure?
<<. Taylor Sheridan is ViacomCBS' new golden boy. I think ViacomCBS will reevaluate how much money they put into NuTrek for what they are getting in return.>>
1883 costs more per episode than Discovery and has been #1 on only 4 days in the month since the show premiered. Mayor of Kingstown has also been ranked lower than Discovery since it started...it's only been in the top slot on 3 days this month since the show premiered in November. Discovery was the top show on 25 days since Mayor premiered. And has already been posted, Discovery has been Paramount's most watched show. Looks like Paramount is getting quite a bit from the money they are putting into Star Trek...which is why they are putting more money into the franchise.
So Discovery was the number one show on the service for most of the month, 17 out of 31 days of December ,and I just randomly checked 4 days when it wasn't #1 and it was 2nd or 3rd...and you actually think this is a failure?
<<. Taylor Sheridan is ViacomCBS' new golden boy. I think ViacomCBS will reevaluate how much money they put into NuTrek for what they are getting in return.>>
1883 costs more per episode than Discovery and has been #1 on only 4 days in the month since the show premiered. Mayor of Kingstown has also been ranked lower than Discovery since it started...it's only been in the top slot on 3 days this month since the show premiered in November. Discovery was the top show on 25 days since Mayor premiered. And has already been posted, Discovery has been Paramount's most watched show. Looks like Paramount is getting quite a bit from the money they are putting into Star Trek...which is why they are putting more money into the franchise.
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