Why hasn't society evolved enough yet?

[VulcanJedi]

Why aren't we all using hover cars? Where is my jet-pack? How come we haven't ended poverty yet? Or sickness? Why are people still illiterate? Why is there still so much violence?

Star Trek said that in the FUTURE everything would be wonderful. BUT IT"S NOT!

All the world's problems should have been solved by now; but they're NOT!

How come we all can't just get along? Why can't there be a brotherhood of man? Or even a sisterhood of traveling pants?

Could it be that the problems in the world cannot be solved by science? Is it possible that logic and reason are not the issue? Well, maybe if we had the willpower of Vulcans we could live our lives focused on pure logic, but we ain't Vulcan.

What's worse is that science isn't even solving all of our science problems. But, it's not all bad. There is hope. Science has made some strides here and there for sure.

How do we achieve the utopian vision? The enlightened FUTURE sought by men like H.G. Wells and Star Trek's creators?

Is it only achieved through scientific advancement? Will pills solve our problems?

Can we make our own rules? Can we rewrite the book? Or are the rules already written a timeless standard? Does the constitution evolve? Does the Bill of Rights evolve?

Are we better people today than Thomas Jefferson and George Washington? Are we better than them because we wouldn't own slaves?

Or are the products in our home the work of distant slaves in the outer rim territories where the republic's laws do not apply? Are we more selfless than John Adams or Paul Revere? Have we evolved.........?


.......




NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We Frickin' HAVEn't!!!!!

 

[Lord Garth]

I want to ask one thing and point out another:

1. What does this have to do with the future of Star Trek?

2. Thinking of 2007 as The Future is a very 20th Century viewpoint. It's not as if things were going to be one way in 1999 and then magically change overnight in 2000.

Really, it will take time to get to The Future, and real work. Unfortunately there's no instant gratification because you have to conciously change thousands of years of civilization and millions of years of animal instinct. The progress we've made in the last 700 years is amazing and far outweighs the 800 before it.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

People don't have hover-cars because they'd forget to put oil in it, it would break down and they'd die. At least with a ground-based car, you wouldn't die froma break down.

And there ARE jet packs. They're just kinda fuel inefficient, that's all. Plus, there's the whole dying thing. Transportation needs to be more forgiving of stupidity before it'll work.

 

[royalfan5]

I think it's clear from Trek that we will need WWIII to ignite the change. So just sit back and wait for nuclear war to fix everything.

 

[T J]

Temis the Vorta said:
People don't have hover-cars because they'd forget to put oil in it, it would break down and they'd die. At least with a ground-based car, you wouldn't die froma break down.

I'll be damned... I think this is one of the smartest things I've ever read... Bravo! :thumbsup:

 

[Dale]

I recently did a commentary for public radio on this very topic. Click here, then scroll down to "Future Promise" to hear my take on the disappointing "future" we live in...

 

[SeamusShameless]

Society hasn't evolved because mankind is weak-minded, territorial, and intolerant. As civilized as we want to make ourselves and others believe, we are not but a child race.

 

[jonnyskywatcher]

VulcanJedi said:
Why is there still so much violence?

Because humans love violence, just look at boxing or wrestling, in a way they're just really watered down Gladiator fights. American football is just a bunch of guys running into each other.

Star Trek said that in the FUTURE everything would be wonderful. BUT IT"S NOT!

All the world's problems should have been solved by now; but they're NOT!

That's because it's easy to say that in the future everything is going to be better, but it really is going to be pretty much the same, because you're still dealing with humans.

 

[tobindax]

VulcanJedi said:
Why aren't we all using hover cars?

Simply.

It's not today technology's "fault", as much as old literature's overoptimism (or opportunism, or just right to dream).

In a basic clean example, today a scientist may imagine fusion power generation in 20 years. Would it be the future scientists' fault if today's approximation is wrong and takes 30 years?

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Why aren't we all using hover cars? Where is my jet-pack?

Temis's answer is so perfect that there's nothing more to add. If I were single, a bit younger, and lived within a thousand miles of her...

How come we haven't ended poverty yet?

Two answers:

1) Much of what we consider "poverty" in this country at least, today, is what would once have been considered "rich." People in poverty should not own their own automobile, have a cell phone, three color TVs, a computer... and have enough to eat that they become obese, should they? Is that "really" poverty?

2) However, true poverty still exists. Why? Not because of "corporate greed" or whatever... corporate profits are actually best served when everyone is productive and thus has disposable income to spend. Rather... it's because (1) some people are incapable of being productive, (2) some people choose... yes, I said it, CHOOSE... to be unproductive, and (3) no system is, or ever will be, PERFECT, so some people who fit into neither of the above categories still somehow fall through the cracks.

There is a way to eliminate poverty tomorrow. Eliminate freedom. Take away the ability of people to make their own bad choices and to live with the consequences of their own actions. Put everyone into a prison cell. Tell them when to wake up, what to eat, when to sleep, who to associate with... everything. Take away all freedom of choice. Take away all opportunity to take risks, and to face the consequences of those risks. That'll do it. No more poverty... because everyone will be under the total domination of the state.

Personally, I would rather die in poverty than live in that world. But I may not be in the majority in that regard. What do YOU think?

Or sickness?

Because diseases are a form of life as well. Bacteria, virii... all are LIFE. Just because they're not cute puppies doesn't mean that they aren't part of the real ecology of the planet, and probably of the galaxy.

Disease is part of life. And for every disease we destroy, another half-dozen new ones come along. That's just how nature works.

Why are people still illiterate?

A MUCH tougher question. Here in the USA, the overwhelming majority of the illiterate are that way because they have CHOSEN to be that way. We have free, COMPULSORY education for all children. Some is better than others, but I've never heard of any school where it's impossible to learn to read if you want to. And if that were the case... the parents could teach the children. But somehow, it's become a "status symbol" to hate learning among certain subcultures in the USA. In certain inner-city areas, working hard in school is treated as "race betrayal." As if somehow remaining illiterate HELPS anyone.

In the rest of the world, it varies. For example, many women in the muslim world are illiterate because, under Sharia law, women are forbidden to attend school, forbidden to do business, and (in the most literal interpretation of the Koran) forbidden to even KNOW how to read or write.

Why is there still so much violence?

Oh, this is an easy one. Life.. EVERY ASPECT OF LIFE... is violent. Sometimes you can isolate yourself from it, pretend it doesn't exist... but we are all living in a constant state of struggle, trying to survive and to grow and to compete against other competing forces, both biological and otherwise.

Take an antibiotic.. you're committing an act of violence! Walk across a sidewalk and crush a tiny ant accidentally, you've committed an act of violence. Eat a berry from a plant which is growing in soil containing the bodies of dead living things... and you're just one step away from the violent deaths of those animals, even if you don't realize it.

The water we drink... the food we eat...the clothes we wear... EVERYTHING... all of it, in one sense or another, is the result of an act which is violent.

LIFE IS VIOLENT. The sooner people learn that, the sooner they can move onto the inevitable next step... "Yes! I'm a killer, from a race of killers. But I'm not going to kill today!" Recognize this... that everything in life is violent, and that we are inherently, at the very core of our beings, violent creatures... and only then can you begin to exercise moral judgements.

 

[The Wormhole]

VulcanJedi said:
Star Trek said that in the FUTURE everything would be wonderful. BUT IT"S NOT!

Star Trek has said that the future starting in the 22nd century would be paradise. However, Trek has made it clear that we're in for one shitty 21st century. Sanctuary Districts for the homeless, a third world war, the aftermath of which apparently has a genocidal maniac gaining power. Yeah, Trek's rosy future ain't going to be around for a good long while yet.

 

[Sean Aaron]

Probably because we live in scarcity-based economies. I imagine if replicators were available for everyone such that no one needed to buy any of the crap that most corporations sell or work for said corporations to make money to buy what they need to live, then we'd start to see changes in how humans relate to each other. You'd still need to find ways to unite humanity, but if people had the basics like food and water you'd eliminate a lot of conflict.

Obviously everyone is going to look out for their own first, but there's a lot that could be done to make lives better for poorer people in so-called third world nations that our political leaders are simply unwilling to do. One thing would be to make Fair Trade the law so that all producers get a fair price for their goods; stop wealthy companies from using prison or sweatshop labour overseas to enhance shareholder profits at home at the expense of decent wages for their employees (whether direct or indirect); use a progressive tax structure to ensure people with more wealth pay their fair share.

Lastly I think people need a greater sense of control over their own destinies. Large countries with centralised government tend to work against that. People in regional areas invariably feel disconnected from what's happening far away from them, but that's where many of the decisions affecting their lives take place. I favour smaller countries working in concert towards greater goals as a nice way forward. A parliament elected by proportional representation which enables people to have their own viewpoints better represented in that parliament is my preferred mode of democracy.

I seem to recall an area of this board called the Neutral Zone to deal with political/touchy subjects, but it seems to have gone away in the years since I last frequented these parts. I suppose any question about our present state of affairs and moving towards our own future and how we can make it more Trek-like is appropriate to have here.

 

[kv1at3485]

Our present is better than Star Trek's 'future'.

VulcanJedi said:
Star Trek said that in the FUTURE everything would be wonderful.

Star Trek said the future would be wonderful? If anything, Star Trek says the future will be full of stupid, technophobic cattle, clinging to anachronistic ways of life because they are too afraid to think for themselves.

Strangely enough, we already have it better than the people in Star Trek where it counts.

 

[Balthier the Great]

Re: Our present is better than Star Trek's 'future'.

Well, for one thing people are lazy. We have technology that's "good enough" for our needs right now, so we aren't really going full tilt to make things better. We don't need hovercars and jetpacks because our ground transportation is for the most part "good enough." In fact, the train is being used in many places because it's better than the car (downtown NY or Chicago, most cities in Europe) -- there just isn't room for every citizen to have a car, so they use public transport.

As for society, it's the same kind of deal. The people with the power to change things are also the ones that have it fairly good. Your kids aren't starving, so the idea of redistributing food to Africa sounds like a hassle. Without stress on the system, it doesn't change. It's frankly easier to watch Picard in baptist-preacher-mode talk about how they've overcome greed than to actually overcome greed.

If we ever need transporters and warp drives they'll exist, but we won't invent stuff like that just for grins, we have to need it. Because people are lazy.

 

[Sean Aaron]

Re: Our present is better than Star Trek's 'future'.

BalthierTheGreat said:
It's frankly easier to watch Picard in baptist-preacher-mode talk about how they've overcome greed than to actually overcome greed.

I've never seen Picard as charismatic in quite that fashion.

 

[Balthier the Great]

Re: Our present is better than Star Trek's 'future'.

CaptainSpock said:

BalthierTheGreat said:
It's frankly easier to watch Picard in baptist-preacher-mode talk about how they've overcome greed than to actually overcome greed.

I've never seen Picard as charismatic in quite that fashion.

Well, not charismatic, no. What I mean was the bad habit a lot of captains get into of spending time trying to "evangelize" random bumpy-headed aliens into adopting the Federation Way. Or the way they'll speak about how the Federation is advanced because they've gotten rid or greed, war, poverty, and so on. It's not the most charismatic altarcall I've ever heard, but the similarity between the two is there.

 

[seigezunt]

Re: Our present is better than Star Trek's 'future'.

check out "Who Killed The Electric Car?"

It answers some of these questions.

We basically don't live in that future, because it profits some people to keep us in the past.

 

[Sean Aaron]

Re: Our present is better than Star Trek's 'future'.

Just taking the piss Balthier, I got your drift. Although I did find Picard's speechifying to be less cheesy than Kirk's.

 

[arch101]

Re: Our present is better than Star Trek's 'future'.

Don't forget, nearly half the world's population is still wrapped up in some sort of theological conflict or another. Another quarter lives in uneducated squalor. A remarkably small percentage of the population of the world is actually educated and what we would consider "civilized" Heck, there are still tribes in Africa that pray to rocks! Until a sizeable percentage of the rest of the world moves up, the kind of future seen in ST is unlikely. What's more likely is that some kind of conflict between the "haves" and the "have nots" (a situation used my many Arab terrorist groups as justification for their actions- perceiving themselves as the "have nots" revolting heroically against the "haves" that have stolen the world from them) might result in the nebulous "3rd world war" that we all fear. That might stabilize the situation and allow the whole world to move up together as purported in Trek. We'll see.

 

[Balthier the Great]

Re: Our present is better than Star Trek's 'future'.

seigezunt said:
check out "Who Killed The Electric Car?"

It answers some of these questions.

We basically don't live in that future, because it profits some people to keep us in the past.

I could see some of that, but I think looking at some technologies, what holds things back is that people aren't quick to replace their old stuff with "new and improved". We've had a terrible time trying to end analog TV because some people don't want to run out and buy new TVs. The new ones cost thousands of dollars, and the ol' TV still works -- why change?

Or with computers, for most thinks, you don't need the latest greatest new computer. Mine is 5 years old and still works. Unless I decide I want to edit video, I probably won't upgrade soon. Not that I don't like techstuff, it's just not worth the money unless I need the extra power. Same for the new HD shit -- they won't really be mainstream until the DVD players start wearing out.