Everyone believes you. It's the whole reason for the question in this thread from a decade ago.
Why doesn't Janeway recognize the Krenim?
- Thread starter Destructor
- Start date
Since this popped back up, the reason is fairly clear from the end of "Year of Hell", in that "Before and After" doesn't happen, at least in the way we saw. The timeline shenanigans were undone. Annorax never makes the weapon, Annorax never starts messing with the timeline, Kes never experiences her year of hell because there no year of hells, therefore she has nothing to warn Janeway about.
tl;dr Annorax never time travels, so Kes could never have experienced the year of hell.
tl;dr Annorax never time travels, so Kes could never have experienced the year of hell.
This is a bit Chicken/Egg. If Kes experienced the Year of Hell in the past, she was privy to the timeline changing so the year of hell could happen… so the warning at the end of the episode mentioned should still be in Janeway’s memory.
Personally, I think the writers came up with a good storyline which would have been ruined if Voyager was instantly immune to the attacks, so they conveniently forgot about the warning and blamed timey wimey stuff as an excuse to ignore it…
I don't think this is so amazing.
Let's face it: the moment Kes left the ship, basically no one seemed to remember her as she was rarely ever mentioned again, even in situations where it would have been appropriate. Save for a few precious exceptions.
So if they barely remember Kes why would they remember what she told them that day?
Let's face it: the moment Kes left the ship, basically no one seemed to remember her as she was rarely ever mentioned again, even in situations where it would have been appropriate. Save for a few precious exceptions.
So if they barely remember Kes why would they remember what she told them that day?
NOT trying to hijack the Thread, but I just saw it on the "recent posts", and I swear to Kahless that just for second I thought it said, "Why doesn't Janeway recognize the Kremlin?"
Thought it was an Alternate Universe Episode I missed...
I initially read the question as in 'recognize their authority'.
But if we go this route, I think the more interesting question would be .... how would Janeway deal with Trump ?
Last edited:
SNW implies the Second American War leads to World War 3, and the images shown depict MAGA types. Janeway might be in a "City on the Edge of Forever" situation where she has to let Cult 45 do its thing, because humanity has to reach its lowest possible point before we could put it behind us and improve.
"But if we go this route, I think the more interesting question would be .... how would Janeway deal with Trump ?"
Let's not go this route...
Let's not go this route...
No, it can't.
At the end of YOH, the temporal incursion inside Annorax's ship ensures that the ship will never be built. So therefore there can never be a Year of Hell in the resulting timeline.
Last edited:
^I wouldn't say 'never'. Doesn't Year of Hell end with Annorax still doing temporal calculations, even when his wife calls him to spend the day with her?
I think there are actually two things to consider regarding Janeway not recognizing the Krenim right away.
First, Kes was present during the Year of Hell in "BEFORE AND AFTER", which means she didn't hurl Voyager 10,000 light years and past Borg space, which Krenim space was clearly in that area. So how did they get there to begin with? (And while we're at it, where was Seven?)
Second, assuming everything still happened anyway, we only saw Krenim ships attack in "BEFORE AND AFTER", not Annorax's timeship. They may very well have never encountered him during that time. Therefore, it doesn't get destroyed by Voyager ramming into it.
Or there is another possibility... Janeway simply didn't remember the name 'Krenim' at first because it was from a report from a year ago about a possible future that may very well not happen.
One other thing occurs to me... whatever method Voyager got to Krenim space in the "BEFORE AND AFTER" timeline, it's very possible that that point of entry had more aggressive Krenim captains on patrol in that area than the section where "YEAR OF HELL" Voyager entered Krenim space. That might also explain why they didn't seem to encounter the timeship in the Kes timeline.
First, Kes was present during the Year of Hell in "BEFORE AND AFTER", which means she didn't hurl Voyager 10,000 light years and past Borg space, which Krenim space was clearly in that area. So how did they get there to begin with? (And while we're at it, where was Seven?)
Second, assuming everything still happened anyway, we only saw Krenim ships attack in "BEFORE AND AFTER", not Annorax's timeship. They may very well have never encountered him during that time. Therefore, it doesn't get destroyed by Voyager ramming into it.
Or there is another possibility... Janeway simply didn't remember the name 'Krenim' at first because it was from a report from a year ago about a possible future that may very well not happen.
One other thing occurs to me... whatever method Voyager got to Krenim space in the "BEFORE AND AFTER" timeline, it's very possible that that point of entry had more aggressive Krenim captains on patrol in that area than the section where "YEAR OF HELL" Voyager entered Krenim space. That might also explain why they didn't seem to encounter the timeship in the Kes timeline.
Yes, but we know he won't complete those calculations.
Like I said: At the end of the year of hell, there was a temporal incursion inside Annorax's ship. As we saw many times, temporal incursions completely erase the "subject" from history. Therefore, the ship erased itself. It will never be built. Simple, logical, efficient.
So even if, in the revised timeline, we see Annorax working on the calculations for the ship, we know he will never finish them.
Indeed, in the year of hell, doesn't Annorax say something about how he never managed to find time to spend with his wife when he was working on the ship? In the new timeline, he DOES make that time. He does spend the day with his wife. He never did that before.
Last edited:
I think everyone's overthinking this.
My theory is that Janeway DOES recognize the name of the Krenim from Kes's report from Before and After. She just doesn't react to the name on screen for whatever reasons.
Because EVERY. OTHER. TIME. Janeway hears alien representatives go "please avoid our area of space," she tries to argue and haggle and even punch her way through into an attempt at obtaining passage through in order to avoid adding however many months or years to the journey. But here, this Krenim guy shows up, says "this area of space is in dispute," she accepts that and orders a course change. So THIS ONE TIME she decides to listen and avoid this area of space? Yeah, because she remembers the Krenim, and the hell that they put Voyager through in the alternate timeline Kes experienced, and is ready to say "yeah, okay, we'll give them a wide berth and avoid this year of hell."
My theory is that Janeway DOES recognize the name of the Krenim from Kes's report from Before and After. She just doesn't react to the name on screen for whatever reasons.
Because EVERY. OTHER. TIME. Janeway hears alien representatives go "please avoid our area of space," she tries to argue and haggle and even punch her way through into an attempt at obtaining passage through in order to avoid adding however many months or years to the journey. But here, this Krenim guy shows up, says "this area of space is in dispute," she accepts that and orders a course change. So THIS ONE TIME she decides to listen and avoid this area of space? Yeah, because she remembers the Krenim, and the hell that they put Voyager through in the alternate timeline Kes experienced, and is ready to say "yeah, okay, we'll give them a wide berth and avoid this year of hell."
Plans for the ship existed.
The raw materials that made the ship were unmade.
If one of those materials was very rare or even unique, to that region of space, no other Krenim Imperium could duplicate that technology.
Removing all that metal from underground would probably cause geological instability, making the area unusable for mining.
Voyager is and always had been temporally inert, to the Krenim on the weapon.
Before and After never happened, while those Krenim on the weapon were keeping records.
The raw materials that made the ship were unmade.
If one of those materials was very rare or even unique, to that region of space, no other Krenim Imperium could duplicate that technology.
Removing all that metal from underground would probably cause geological instability, making the area unusable for mining.
Voyager is and always had been temporally inert, to the Krenim on the weapon.
Before and After never happened, while those Krenim on the weapon were keeping records.
I got the sense that he was just doing his normal day job stuff at that point, no longer trying to change the fabric of reality.
Kor
I took it as he rediscovered the importance of his family and left his work unfinished. It's metaphorical, as he easily could have resumed his work that night or the next day, but I think the scene conveys the deeper meaning clearly.
Similar threads
