Why does Worf always say Wheapons ?

[Tom Riley]

If that's the scene, then yeah, she's not overdoing it. It sounds fine to me.

 

[scotpens]

Sometimes, it's better to use the bastardized American version than it is to try to use the French one and end up sounding like a pretentious snob.

Unless sounding like a pretentious snob is your natural way of speaking.

It's all in the ear of the beholder, so to speak. A friend once said I sounded like an affected snob because I pronounce “vase” with a broad a and the s like z, rather than rhyming it with “face.” That's how my parents pronounce it, and that's how I learned to pronounce it. To me it sounds normal.

And then there's the strange bastardized way most Americans say “lingerie.”

 

[Willieck]

scotpens wrote

It's all in the ear of the beholder, so to speak. A friend once said I sounded like an affected snob because I pronounce “vase” with a broad a and the s like z, rather than rhyming it with “face.” That's how my parents pronounce it, and that's how I learned to pronounce it. To me it sounds normal.

You mean like "varze"? That's how we pronounce it in England.

 

[iguana_tonante]

You guys are all crazy.

I'm so very glad my language has a fixed phonetic value for almost every letter.

 

[Nardpuncher]

The way she said "croissant" always sort-of bugged me too.

I think it's more the tone and just the general way she says it, it doesn't sound natural. I believe Beverly's national origins have some "roots" in America so I think she should've pronounced it more how an American pronouces it ("kriss-awnt.") She pronounces it a sort-of French way and it comes-off as sounding odd and it almost sounds like she says it in a "mocking" kind of way. Like she's trying to sound French to impress Picard or something. Sort of like when a girl in high school is into a guy and tries to learn the rules about football and then has to be around him all the time to spouting off her knowledge and somehow mucks up the details somewhere.

It came across as a bit silly and desperate.

As it's a French word I would have thought she would have pronounced it with a French accent not an American one. Doesn't sound mocking at all. I as a Brit pronounce it in exactly the say way and not in some English equivalent.

Just being a French word doesn't mean one will say it with a French inflection. I say "kirs-aunt" myself, even though I know it's not how it's said, it's just the way Americans say it. I also say "foy-er" instead of "foy-ay."

I agree.

I'm Canadian and when I speak French (rarely) I use the French accent, so I'd say it the way Beverly did, but if I'm speaking English I use the 'American' way.
We had a Prime Minister called Jean Chretien whose name you could say in a very Francophone kind of way and also kind of anglicize it ( but still pronounce Jean like Jean Luc's Jean) It depended on if you were speaking French or English.
It was also funny when you'd hear someone speaking French and say: "J'ai mangé un cheeseburger pour mon déjeuner" and they would say "cheeseburger" in the English way. Hit the ear wrong.
So yeah, I thought Crusher sounded pretentious then.

 

[iguana_tonante]

I'm Canadian and when I speak French (rarely) I use the French accent, so I'd say it the way Beverly did, but if I'm speaking English I use the 'American' way.
We had a Prime Minister called Jean Chretien whose name you could say in a very Francophone kind of way and also kind of anglicize it ( but still pronounce Jean like Jean Luc's Jean) It depended on if you were speaking French or English.
It was also funny when you'd hear someone speaking French and say: "J'ai mangé un cheeseburger pour mon déjeuner" and they would say "cheeseburger" in the English way. Hit the ear wrong.
So yeah, I thought Crusher sounded pretentious then.

I kind of agree, except for the pretentious part. I use a lot of English word in everyday speech even when I'm speaking Italian (mostly scientific jargon or computer-related stuff), but usually I pronounce them in a different way I would do if I was speaking English.

In your example, I would say "Ho mangiato un cheeseburger per pranzo", but I would pronounce it more like "chisboorrgerr". On the other hand, even when speaking English, I pronounce Italian words the way I say them in Italian, not with an English accent. "I had a pizza for lunch", for example, I would not pronounce it "peeza" as Americans do, but "pit-tzah", because that's how I've learned the word.

So I wouldn't say that Beverly was been pretentious, just that it was the way she learned the word, and it stuck with her.

 

[RoJoHen]

I would not pronounce it "peeza" as Americans do

No American pronounces it that way.

 

[Willieck]

I would not pronounce it "peeza" as Americans do

No American pronounces it that way.

Wow, that's a huge statement!

There are an awful lot of people in America (about 310 million I believe) and lots of widely differing accents.

 

[RoJoHen]

I would not pronounce it "peeza" as Americans do

No American pronounces it that way.

Wow, that's a huge statement!

There are an awful lot of people in America (about 310 million I believe) and lots of widely differing accents.

Yes, thank you. I've lived here a long time.

I've never heard anybody pronounce it that way. That wouldn't even be an accent. That would just be mispronunciation of the word.

Peet-za? Sure. Peeza? No. Gotta have the T in there, otherwise it's just plain wrong.

 

[Willieck]

I have just watched "Qpid" again and am intrigued by the way Americans say Robin Hood rather than the English way which is Robin Hood Even Picard says it although I suppose that is just so he doesn't stand out.

If there was a man called John Smith I presume that Americans would not call him John Smith but John Smith so why the differentiation for Robin Hood?

 

[Willieck]

RoJoHen Wrote

I've never heard anybody pronounce it that way. That wouldn't even be an accent. That would just be mispronunciation of the word.

I'm not saying you are wrong but one man's mispronunciation is another man's dialect.

 

[RoJoHen]

RoJoHen Wrote

I've never heard anybody pronounce it that way. That wouldn't even be an accent. That would just be mispronunciation of the word.

I'm not saying you are wrong but one man's mispronunciation is another man's dialect.

Fine. Most Americans wouldn't pronounce it that way.

God forbid I use a little hyperbole.

 

[Nardpuncher]

RoJoHen Wrote

I've never heard anybody pronounce it that way. That wouldn't even be an accent. That would just be mispronunciation of the word.

I'm not saying you are wrong but one man's mispronunciation is another man's dialect.

Fine. Most Americans wouldn't pronounce it that way.

God forbid I use a little hyperbole.

This is the TrekBBS...you can't even say the sky's blue without people lining up to correct or ammend that.

 

[RoJoHen]

RoJoHen Wrote



I'm not saying you are wrong but one man's mispronunciation is another man's dialect.

Fine. Most Americans wouldn't pronounce it that way.

God forbid I use a little hyperbole.

This is the TrekBBS...you can't even say the sky's blue without people lining up to correct or ammend that.

You'd think I'd learn that after 10 years here.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Just being a French word doesn't mean one will say it with a French inflection. I say "kirs-aunt" myself, even though I know it's not how it's said, it's just the way Americans say it. I also say "foy-er" instead of "foy-ay."

I've never heard anyone say foy-er, I guess I must sound pretentious to everyone when I say foy-ay.

 

[Nardpuncher]

So I wouldn't say that Beverly was been pretentious, just that it was the way she learned the word, and it stuck with her.

Funny thing is I wouldn't consider it pretentious anywhere outside North America.
Speaking French is used that way by many people in North America.

I remember a friend chuckling at me about 10 years ago because I didn't pronounce Feng Shui properly. I don't think I was even bringing it up myself rather than asking what it meant when I saw it on a book cover. I guess I must've said "Fong Shoey"
Now I live in Taiwan and can speak a pretty decent amount of Mandarin.

 

[iguana_tonante]

I've never heard anybody pronounce it that way. That wouldn't even be an accent. That would just be mispronunciation of the word.

Peet-za? Sure. Peeza? No. Gotta have the T in there, otherwise it's just plain wrong.

Maybe there is a T somewhere, but I don't really recognize it. Probably I just keep expecting a strong T, and a soft T doesn't really register to my ears. It's not really important, tho: that was not my point.

 

[Nardpuncher]

I say pizza with a strong T, like Pete Zah. Not saying I'm right, though.

 

[Deckerd]

I hate when Crusher says Boo-eee instead of boy for buoy.

That's the way Americans say it.

How do you say buoyant or buoyancy?

 

[Deckerd]

I've never heard anybody pronounce it that way. That wouldn't even be an accent. That would just be mispronunciation of the word.

Peet-za? Sure. Peeza? No. Gotta have the T in there, otherwise it's just plain wrong.

Maybe there is a T somewhere, but I don't really recognize it. Probably I just keep expecting a strong T, and a soft T doesn't really register to my ears. It's not really important, tho: that was not my point.

When the moon hits your eye
Like a big-a pizza pie