Why Do Trekkies Bash Michael Bay?

[Trekker4747]

Parts: The Clonus Horror is very, very, very similar to "The Island."

In Clonus: A man is in an enclave where he's constantly under surveilance and trained. His head is filled with dreams of "going to America" where he believes he will live a great life. People who "go to America" are choosen "at random" for the honor. He falls for another woman in the compound where they're observed by the overseer of the compound to pretty much see what happens. Eventualy our "hero" escapes the enclave and encounters his genetic "donor" who's kind at first but eventualy turns on the hero. Both movies, IIRC The Island correctly, where the main-character gets into "unauthorized" areas and discovers more about his nature. About the only differences between The Island and Clonus is the ending (in the Island our clones live happily ever after in Clonus... not so much) and the girl (in The Island she goes with the main character, in Parts she remains in the clone compound.)

Seriously, get the MST3K Vol. 12 set (probably the only place you'll get "Clonus") and watch the movie and then watch The Island. When I saw "Clonus" I was instantly shocked how similiar it was to The Island as were my friends who watched it with me. The movies are almost identical.

 

[Gepard]

Seriously, get the MST3K Vol. 12 set (probably the only place you'll get "Clonus") and watch the movie and then watch The Island.

Or just read this. And this. And this.

Oh, and this one, too.

 

[Trekker4747]

Seriously, get the MST3K Vol. 12 set (probably the only place you'll get "Clonus") and watch the movie and then watch The Island.

Or just read this. And this. And this.

Oh, and this one, too.

None of them not nearly as entertaining as watching MST3K.

I'm going to pop in Parts myself here in a minute!

 

[Nebula1400]

Michael Bay has problems with characters. He's good for what he does well (cool explosions and lots of action), so I don't always criticize him. But if you want a movie with substance, he's a bit weak there.

IMO, Bay's action sequences are often so overloaded with visuals that it becomes hard for the audience to know who they are supposed to be following or care about. This was a major problem I had with Transformers.

I agree. He could have cut out 30 minutes of battle sequences and "Transformers" would still have been overloaded with action. The last third of the movie lost me because of this.

Plus Bay has an overblown ego and is supposedly very difficult to work with. A great director is one who gets great results without pissing the actors and support/tech people off.

 

[Gepard]

None of them not nearly as entertaining as watching MST3K.

It's much faster, though.

 

[mythicdove]

I love Transformers don't get me wrong, I am waiting for the new one.. but Bay does not do characters well. He's great for explosions and such... and that's about it.

I love Ewan McGregor and Sean Bean as actors, but even they couldn't save The Island.

 

[Xerxes1979]

Transformers sucked. Having just turned 30, I can tell you that film is in no way better than the cartoon series I watched during its original run in the 1980s.

They already made a transformers film in 1986. It had Orson Wells and Leonard Nimoy. What did Michael Bay bring? Megan Fox who comes off as a whore, Jon Voight and that creepy guy who works for section 7.

Terrible dialogue and stupid charcters don't help either.

That recent Friday the 13th remake was crap and Bay is going ahead and destroying another horror classic when he remakes Nightmare on Elmstreet in 2010.

Stop this man. I try to boycott him but sometimes I surrender to stupidity in order to placate my movie going social circle.

 

[Trekker4747]

None of them not nearly as entertaining as watching MST3K.

It's much faster, though.

Perhaps, but the "Clonus" episode is one of MST's better ones.

I just got done watching it, infact.

 

[Gepard]

Perhaps, but the "Clonus" episode is one of MST's better ones.

"Do you want to see Sonny and Cher tonight, young man?"

I agree; nevertheless, it's a lot less trouble for other people to research it by reading free articles online than it is to order $60 DVD sets, wait weeks for delivery, then spend one-and-a-half hours watching a TV show.

You know, just sayin'.

 

[Cakes488]

I thought Armageddon was superb. With a much better soundtrack than Star Trek to boot.

Superb!!! Superb??

I'm sorry that you think Armageddon was superb...really I am because in reality there is no way this film should be considered anywhere near superb...and by you thinking that it is saddens me because there are so many other finer films out there for viewing such as: Sunset Blvd, Bridge on the River Kwai, Witness for the Prosecution, How green was my valley, Judgement at Nurenburg(sp), Long Day's Journey into Night, the Night of the Hunter, How the West was won....I'll stop now because the list never ends...but Damn do I love me some night of the hunter!!!

Night of the Hunter? Haven't had anyone mention ages... Not even film snobs.... Then again, this new breed of film snobs think everything begins and ends with Kurasowa (nothing against the man).

Armageddon was terrible. It's like Deep Impact with more action but less emotional impact. Deep Impact was a decent, three star flick. It was a disaster movie about people dealing with the imminent disaster. Amageddon was a shoddy vehicle for explosions.

Are you implying that Orci and Kurtzman are actually Genuis, and that because we like the new Trek film we automatically think Abrams is a good director? For Christ's sake LENSE FLARE. God, drove me up the wall.

Abrams produced that cinematic Abortion that was Cloverfield, directed Mission Impossible 3 (just when I thought it couldn't get worse than Mission Impossible 2), and gave us TV crap like Lost, Alias, and Felicity.


Orci and Kurtzman gave us Transformers, and not even Star Trek XI has me able to forgive them.

Yeah by no means do I think this Abrams guy is a genius or master film maker...same goes for the other two...Orci & Kurtzman. I mean when you see a really well written film then you can fully appreciate it and realize that these guys ain't it.

Even Star Trek XI had enough issues for me to think that these people are getting lucky... The dialog was over expository. The actors did a good job expressing their characters as they will.... Do we need Spock to SAY he's emotionally compromised AFTER a fist fight on the bridge? All he should say is he steps down.

The movie is full of minor things like this that add up. I actually think it's an insult to the great cast for thinking they can't show this through their performance, and an insult to the audience for thinking we'll never understand it.

I like how they determine every little bit of the "Time Travel" subplot out of nowhere in a manner that is so clearly speaking to the audience, they might as well have just looked at the screen.


If I watch it again (which I will, mostly because I still have friends who want to go with me) I can point out all these parts where the writers didn't exactly do a good job. They had a good story, and mostly well written, and it turned out pretty good. But I'm not going to count on them.



I believe that somethings about movies are objective. Star Trek XI is definitely to my tastes, and I enjoyed it. Enough for me to forgive the imperfections. Somethings, however, are NOT objective. People like to say "Well, it's my opinion" when the truth is, there are very specific things in movies that make the script better, the cinematography better, and all and all a greater production, even if you like other films better.... But now I'm rambling....

Point is, the script wasn't nearly as polished as it should have been, and it's the best thing that Kurtzman and Orci wrote. I think them and Abrams had little to do with the success of this film. The Production Design team is made up of the unsung heroes of this film, and the superb cast managed to go above and beyond the call of Duty.

Thank goodness I'm no snob of film or any sort....very low maintenance type of person. But have you seen Night of the Hunter? Has anybody? I love that movie!

I'm worried about the next movie too with these writers...but I'm going to have faith and I think they can pull it off. Well I'm going to think that anyway until I see otherwise.

 

[Kirk1980]

My litmus test will come with the new Transformers film. If they show more discipline in plot construction than they did in the first go-round, I'll be thrilled about them coming back for the second Trek.

 

[God Magnus]

As Scotty himself once said "the right tool for the right job!". That's how I view Hollywood directors, writers etc. Just as there are some more actors suited for some roles than others and there are some directors more suited for some movies than others. I think Bay does his best work on stuff like "Transformers", but I would have been nervous if he had directed "Trek".

As for the bashing, it's what people online do. Doesn't matter what or who is involved. If you post about it, someone will trash it eventually.

 

[Stone_Cold_Sisko]

because they don't like his films?

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

It's not just trek fans who bash Michael Bay's films -- I think Michael Bay bashers are all sorts of people.

 

[CoveTom]

But to be a "great" filmmaker, you gotta do more than put butts in seats and blow up shit real good.

Holy crap, since when?!? You better keep quiet, that could really shake the foundations of Hollywood...

 

[Triskelion]

I hear Michael Bay is redoing When Harry Met Sally. Watch out for the Diner scene! Blammo!

 

[Kirk's_Tights]

After I watched Transformers, that's what did it for me. He failed.

 

[M'Sharak]

I hear Michael Bay is redoing When Harry Met Sally. Watch out for the Diner scene! Blammo!

"I'll have what she's having."

 

[Newski]

Thank goodness I'm no snob of film or any sort....very low maintenance type of person. But have you seen Night of the Hunter? Has anybody? I love that movie!

I'm worried about the next movie too with these writers...but I'm going to have faith and I think they can pull it off. Well I'm going to think that anyway until I see otherwise.

Of course I've seen Night of the Hunter. It's frickin' terrifying...

"Children? Children?!?"

That scene always sends shivers down my spine....


I'm going to think that, well, they can do a decent job... We've had some Trek films that it's hard to be worse than....

 

[Australis]

By coincidence, I was watching 'The Rock' last night,and put my finger on it, exactly as someone said upthread - the dialogue was terrible!

Now, the dialogue is the writer's area, but it can also be the way the lines are delivered, or rewritten, or emphasised by the actor according to the direction. It just came out so cheesy - all shouty, or clenched jaws, or tense whispers, or... some kind of telegraphed emotion for nearly every bloody character.

If only Bay could woirk with another director who was good with character and dialogue, but not so good with action. Then we'd see something that could be damned good!.

Any suggestions?