Dayton, you don't post in TNZ anymore?
There is a WF subforum there temporarily.
There is a WF subforum there temporarily.
Why Do Some Consider Drug Tests Humiliating?
- Thread starter Dayton3
- Start date
I'm not supposed to discuss that topic.
its not the greatest feeling in the world.
Bullshit. This is unemployment insurance. We pay the premiums, when we need it we collect. Using drugs has nothing to do with collecting unless you were fired directly for drug use.
Does your car insurance get cancelled because you smoked a joint last month? Your fire insurance? Your health insurance?
Fourth Amendment of the US Constitution said:
Pretty much the very definition of privacy there.
New Oxford American Dictionary said:
Yep. Pretty much.
First off, unless you are a justice on the Supreme Court or a professor of constitutional law at some university, it really isn't your place to interpret the Bill Of Rights beyond what is actually written to the letter. It says "right of the people", not "limitation on law enforcement" or "limited to law enforcement". A right is a right, 24/7, no matter who is challenging it. These rights not only protect the citizen from law enforcement, but from other citizens or individuals.
People I do not know do not have the right to enter my house or take any of my stuff without my permission. Why? The 4th Amendment. They could petition a judge for a warrant. But the petition would likely be thrown out as being totally unreasonable, if the judge bothers to deal with someone outside law enforcement at all in such matters. The 4th is the basis of all laws against unlawful entry and theft. This is being secure in your person, houses, papers and effects.
And in this you are correct. As it falls within the parameters of a reasonable search. They can seize your urine and search it if your job requires you to routinely operate a vehicle or heavy machinery, as your insobriety can directly affect the safety of others. That is reasonable.
But if your job has you sitting at a computer terminal in a cubicle in some office somewhere, no one can possibly come to physical harm by you not being sober when you are off the clock. For jobs like these, drug testing is an unreasonable search. The search of your secure person in this case isn't for the safety and well being of other human beings. It is a search to prove you are innocent of doing something no one has any evidence of otherwise. That's not how our system is supposed to work. Innocent until proven guilty is how we are supposed to roll.
And in the case of unemployment, the workers pay a premium in every check for unemployment insurance. It isn't just employers. If you've paid that insurance long enough and you lose your job through no fault of your own, you get the money. It is not a hand out. You have paid for it.
Maybe not *physical* harm, but if your job involves working with sensitive data at that computer terminal, I'd say a bit of caution on the employer's part is called for.
I applied for a job recently and got to the point where I was CRB checked, (Criminal Records Bureau) I now have a bit of paper that says im not a criminal (dont have the job but thats not the point) my point is that is a good way of deciding who might need to take a drug tests, as any arrests for drug related offensives would show up.
also for the same job I had to answer quite a few questions about my medical history, including if I had a past that involved illegal drugs.
also for the same job I had to answer quite a few questions about my medical history, including if I had a past that involved illegal drugs.
I had a lot of random drug tests in the military. It humiliating because someone has to look at your dick while you are pissing in a cup. How could that not be humiliating?
All Lowe's employees drive forklifts and other heavy equipment inside in areas with customers.
In addition they handle high strength cutting tools.
Actually not "All" employees drive forklifts-- that requires certification. You have to be certified on any of the equipment-- even a simple rip-saw. No certification, write up and or termination for using the equipment.
So do a lot of industrial construction workers, but they move on from job to job and do more drugs than you can shake a stick at because the jobs usually don't last that long and lots of times the job is over before the drug tests would be returned. Even if they get fired, they are on to the next big job in another state anyways. That is how that goes. Those guys are also the most free spoken people people in America. They are not worried about getting fired from a job that only lasts a few weeks and so they pull no punches.
Technically you are correct. You have to be certified in each type of equipment.
But at Lowe's aside from a handful of front end and office employees, everyone else is assigned to a department and they are required to become certified in the equipment in that department.
Finally, all salaried members of management are required to become certified in all operational areas of the store.
At least that is the way it was when I worked for them from 1998-2001. I suppose changes could've been made since then or vary from region to region.
But one thing that did stay the same at the stores I was at, whenever your rate of pay changed, you had to have a drug test.
Which of course did not bother me.
When I hear the words "right to privacy" my first thought is "something to hide".
My Uncle was a shift super here in TN, and only the shift-supers were ever certified in his Lowes. And his GM was someone that had zero certifications on the equipment.
As for "something to hide" = So what ever happened to "innocent till proven guilty" or "Probable cause". After all, just because i refuse to have my rights trampled doesn't mean I have something to hide. It means that, as an American, I expect my rights to be honored.
Why would someone have this opinion? What in your background would lead you to have such an unAmerican view of your fellow citizens?
Good luck when you decide to run for politics.
And I know lots of people who work in home improvement stores, operate machinery and/or drive fork lifts, and none of them have ever had to do a drug test. I've never known anyone who had to take one at all for any job up here. For some reason, we don't seem to have a ton of drug related workplace mishaps.
Seriously, Americans are paranoid.
"innocent until proven guilty" is a concept for a person facing loss of freedom or loss of property due to legal proceedings against them.
It refers to the state being placed under the burden of proving guilt.
It has no application is other parts of life.
Americans throw around too much legalism in life.
So you're okay being treated or even suspected as a criminal, even though there is no proof?
Personally, not humiliated but certainly insulted because it feels as if they are doubting my word.
