Why do so many people hate 'Insurrection' so much?

[Herbert]

People put down the TNG movies for not being much like the show, and then put down Insurrection for being too much like the show. I like it. You know why? Because it's like the show. Is it perfect? No. Is it a fun movie? Yes. Is the manual steering column stupid? Hell yes. Is it more stupid than clean-shaven Riker's chubby cheeks? God no.

Going off of the "it's too much like the show" angle, the first X-Files movie was basically an extended episode and it was good. The second X-Files movie, not so much.

You know, just thinking about it now, I'm not sure I ever saw Insurrection. I can remember being in a theater for First Contact and Nemesis but I have no recollection whatsoever of seeing INS

 

[DonIago]

Did you not see Nemesis?
You absolutely can.

And in Insurrection, they literally talked over his return explanation basically saying "he's back, who cares why, on with our story".

One of my issues with NEM is that based on the end of DS9 it's fairly insulting to anyone who was paying attention that Worf is on the E as though nothing happened. But I accept that you were talking with tongue firmly in cheek.

During INS he's still a Starfleet officer; it's not crazy to think he'd have gotten some leave and decided to visit his friends.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

The movies, like the original 6, are about bringing the family back together for an adventure, as unrealisitic as it is for almost every one of them. That's really the whole point of them. So I see no problem going against logic or continuity for this since the suspension of disbelief is already at maximum by the very concept of these crews still being together after all this time and working the same positions.

 

[Kronos]

You know, just thinking about it now, I'm not sure I ever saw Insurrection. I can remember being in a theater for First Contact and Nemesis but I have no recollection whatsoever of seeing INS

You probably fell asleep, I know I did.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

2. I dislike INS far more than NEM or ID simply because of exactly what you pointed out. INS was so painfully unremarkable that this is its biggest sin. At least NEM and ID were "glorious" failures in many fans minds. But you definitely can't argue that they are unremarkable. I'd rather a movie goes down swinging than just being lukewarm crapola like INS.

Into Darkness wasn't anywhere near a failure as the other movies mentioned in your post, and made a shitload of money domestically in North America and worldwide. Plus, it made a hell of a lot more sense that either Insurrection or Nemesis, as others have pointed out.

The movie where Picard heroically saves the middle-class white people from their rebellious children who they exiled from their gated community. And puts the wants of those people ahead of the entire Federation.

That sums up my issues with this movie.

And yet, people want to bash the fuck out of the Abrams movies.

 

[jaime]

Into Darkness wasn't anywhere near a failure as the other movies mentioned in your post, and made a shitload of money domestically in North America and worldwide. Plus, it made a hell of a lot more sense that either Insurrection or Nemesis, as others have pointed out.



And yet, people want to bash the fuck out of the Abrams movies.

I feel when discussing the quality of anything, saying it has made a lot of money is always a sideways argument and somewhat incorrect.
Trump has a shedload of money. The Dalai Llama does not.
Neither Blade Runner made a chunk of money. Are they therefore not good?
I criticise certain celebrities and without fail my stepmother analogue will point out they have a lot of money, so my criticisms must be invalid.
This is true here. That ID made money does not mean it was a good film, or a good Star Trek film. It simply means a lot of people paid to see it. It does not say what those people thought of it.

 

[jaime]

Yes, you make a good point. I'm still kinda curious how Levar Burton felt about it though. Did he want to continue being blind because that was Geordi's main character trait? Did he want to keep his eyesight but the producers said no? Did he really care either way?

I think he would lean into keeping it. It was there to provide a ‘disabled’ character, and a pretty specific fan who was disabled was its inspiration. It’s part of Treks hopeful future.

 

[jaime]

Then that is the Halkans problem and nothing to do with the Federation. As the crew discovered when they found out the Son'a and the Bak'u were the same people.

Which is when Picard actions become absolutely right, because he’s now attempting to undo the Federations involvement...the SonNa have used Federation tech, and are still using it, to achieve their goals.

 

[jaime]

The movie where Picard heroically saves the middle-class white people from their rebellious children who they exiled from their gated community. And puts the wants of those people ahead of the entire Federation.

That sums up my issues with this movie.

Aside from odd casting choices, what does race have to do with it?
They look like Scandinavians...everyone in Trek speaks with an American accent unless they are French anyway. So really, what doe race and ethnicity have to with the planet of the bread making hipsters?
What if they had gone code of honour on it, and cast only darker skinned actors as the Baku? Everything else being the same, does it suddenly become OK for us to see the Baku as the victims the story says they are?
I mean they aren’t human, so narratively there is no ‘history of opression’ To worry about, so this attitude is purely about the colour of their skin no?

 

[Tenacity]

What if they had gone code of honour on it, and cast only darker skinned actors as the Baku? Everything else being the same, does it suddenly become OK for us to see the Baku as the victims the story says they are?

If Black the Ba'ku would still be selfish, entitled and greedy. Sitting on something that could help billions so they could retain it for their exclusive use.

 

[jaime]

If Black the Ba'ku would still be selfish, entitled and greedy. Sitting on something that could help billions so they could retain it for their exclusive use.

So for you, that’s a no. But I don’t think I have seen you use their appearance as justification for their ‘wrongness’.

 

[MacLeod]

Aside from odd casting choices, what does race have to do with it?
They look like Scandinavians...everyone in Trek speaks with an American accent unless they are French anyway.

That's not true everyone in Star Trek speaks with an American or British accent even Picard.

 

[Tosk]

If Black the Ba'ku would still be selfish, entitled and greedy. Sitting on something that could help billions so they could retain it for their exclusive use.

People keep saying that, but all they did was stop themselves from being kidnapped. There is absolutely nothing in the film which supports them banning other races from living on or near the planet. They just don't want to be kidnapped and have their home made uninhabitable.

The Federation on the other hand, want to move them without their knowledge, plunder the planet for its resources, render it useless for settlement, and retain the plundered material for their own use. Selfish, entitled and greedy indeed.

 

[DonIago]

^Except they didn't do anything to stop themselves from being kidnapped. Our Heroes did that.

Which is when Picard actions become absolutely right, because he’s now attempting to undo the Federations involvement...the SonNa have used Federation tech, and are still using it, to achieve their goals.

Incorrect. The planet was Federation (or was it?), the tech was So'na.

 

[jaime]

^Except they didn't do anything to stop themselves from being kidnapped. Our Heroes did that.



Incorrect. The planet was Federation (or was it?), the tech was So'na.

The holoship and duckblind were both Federation I believe. The data gathering seems to have been largely a federation led thing, the medical tech planned probably So’na...they seem to be advanced in that area. Either way, the So’Na could not have proceeded without Federation help, or they would have. If it’s ownership of the planet, well, they were allied with the Do onion in the war, and could probably have used that pretext to bomb shite out of the Baku.
They needed the Federation at some point in this arrangement, so Picard is fixing that, and defending a World in Federation space.

 

[Nyotarules]

^Except they didn't do anything to stop themselves from being kidnapped. Our Heroes did that.



Incorrect. The planet was Federation (or was it?), the tech was So'na.

They were not Federation members, the Baku were living there before the Federation wore nappies. In fact they should be moving onto the planet around now lol

 

[jaime]

They were not Federation members, the Baku were living there before the Federation wore nappies. In fact they should be moving onto the planet around now lol

I can confirm that six bakeries in Islington have reported bread making gear being abducted by aliens, also beard oil, but those bottles were empty, which explains why the Baku are clean shaven.

 

[Tenacity]

but all they did was stop themselves from being kidnapped

That's not all they did, the Ba'ku hid the knowledge of the medical properties of the ring particles from the rest of the galaxy, or at least the multiple civilizations surrounding them. Keeping the radiation for their own exclusive benefit,

There is absolutely nothing in the film which supports them banning other races from living on or near the planet.

Please, they wouldn't even let their own children relocate to another part of the same planet.

Selfish, entitled and greedy indeed.

Yes yes, the Federation's plan to spread the radiation amongst hundred of billions of people is surely the definition of selfish and greedy. I honestly think the Ba'ku would have continued to have access to the radiation too, just not solely.

But I don’t think I have seen you use their appearance as justification for their ‘wrongness’.

There is that the "good" Ba'ku are fair skined, while the "evil" Son'a (who are just more Ba'ku) have a darker complexion,

 

[jaime]

That's not all they did, the Ba'ku hid the knowledge of the medical properties of the ring particles from the rest of the galaxy, or at least the multiple civilizations surrounding them. Keeping the radiation for their own exclusive benefit,Please, they wouldn't even let their own children relocate to another part of the same planet.Yes yes, the Federation's plan to spread the radiation amongst hundred of billions of people is surely the definition of selfish and greedy. I honestly think the Ba'ku would have continued to have access to the radiation too, just not solely.There is that the "good" Ba'ku are fair skined, while the "evil" Son'a (who are just more Ba'ku) have a darker complexion,

The evil Son’a have a darker complexion? I think that’s just the prosthetics and lighting tbh.
And they did t hide it, the universe did. Are they supposed to give up all tech except for intergalactic advertising?

 

[Shaka Zulu]

The movie where Picard heroically saves the middle-class white people from their rebellious children who they exiled from their gated community. And puts the wants of those people ahead of the entire Federation.

That sums up my issues with this movie.

I feel when discussing the quality of anything, saying it has made a lot of money is always a sideways argument and somewhat incorrect.
Trump has a shedload of money. The Dalai Llama does not.
Neither Blade Runner made a chunk of money. Are they therefore not good?
I criticise certain celebrities and without fail my stepmother analogue will point out they have a lot of money, so my criticisms must be invalid.
This is true here. That ID made money does not mean it was a good film, or a good Star Trek film. It simply means a lot of people paid to see it. It does not say what those people thought of it.

Jamie, the fact that the movie made a lot of money means that people were entertained by it; as somebody on this BBS reminded me a while ago, a movie that makes millions of dollars at the box office worldwide is not a movie that's wildly hated by anybody in particular. YOU didn't like it, but that doesn't mean it's as detested as INS or NEM.