Why do so many fans think replicated food tastes like the "real thing"?

[Deks]

As for Latinum being unreplicable, it's never actually stated in the show. I like to think it is replicable, and that its worth comes from the energy it takes to make it. It's physicalized electricity.

It seems to me that replicators can replicate ANYTHING - as long as you have the energy to do so.
Replicators in the 24th century (or at least the Starfleet variety onboard ships) were described that they can convert energy into matter and that they are very energy taxing as a result (they can also recycle existing matter and store it as energy for later use, or convert that inputted matter into another form matter).

It also wouldn't surprise me if most other species used replicators which just recombine matter from one form into another... but not energy into matter (and its also possible that some UFP colonies would be using this version of a replicator as well - but who knows, Trek showed us that its technology is largely subspace based and that even if initial figures seem low, the application of subspace increases these values exponentially to really high levels - which also explains why photon torpedoes could carry 1.5kg of matter and 1.5kg of antimatter with normal valuations resulting in 64 megatons... but because torpedoes apply subspace technology, these values end up MUCH higher... well into hundreds of GIGATON and possibly TERATON ranges (which would be consistent with high yield effects we saw on screen) - same would apply to phasers.

On DS9 (which uses Cardassian replicators), a guy was able to replicate large versions of those balls which made unlikely probabilities to happen on a frequent basis - and all he did was tell the computer to scan it and make larger versions - even though such technology was never before seen.
No fuss, no muss.
When you have sensors capable of scanning to the subatomic... there's very little that can escape that kind of sensor resolution/quality.
Its probably common place technology that someone in the GQ figured out how to modify/rewire it to produce such effects.

I highly doubt gold pressed latinum cannot be replicated. Besides, the UFP never really used gold pressed latinum... instead, they engage in trade with other species (probably to establish good relations with them, because to be fair, an advanced FTL capable space faring organization with that kind of level of technology would be COMPLETELY self-sufficient (in fact, every member planet in UFP [including colonies] would have to be self-sufficient or brought up to that level).

Gold pressed latinum seems like a currency of choice for the Ferengi because they use a monetary based economy. The UFP has no monetary based economy... so for them, gold pressed latinum has no value (but they probably have resources which the Ferengi might want, so the Ferengi would tolerate trade with UFP but without using gold pressed latinum).

Trading is UFP's preferred modus operandi - a polite way to engage with other species and maintain relations because they know that species who use monetary based economies would have 'currencies' that are only used in their space... trade bypasses that obstacle and can establish some kind of dialogue.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

You're talking about Genetronic Replicators, right?​

 

[Timo]

Umm, apparently not.

1) Ordinary Cardassian food replicators were specified in the above post as being capable of the most amazing of feats.
2) The genetronic replicator of "Ethics" did "DNA-based replication", whatever that is. This was quoted as making it possible to create replicas of things like Worf's spine. It was not quoted as a breakthrough allowing replicators to work in greater detail or capacity in general.

(Technically we don't even know if the genetronic replicator was a replicator in the standard TNG sense at all, just like we can't divine the nature of technology from terminology today. Perhaps it was a biological reactor unsuited for making copies of uniforms or stem bolts?)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[at Quark's]

The only real difference should be that every replicated copy of a given item would taste the same, because they're all exact replicas of the same original item. So they wouldn't have the individual variety of real food items, the differences between any two natural-grown fruits or any two hand-made sandwiches or whatever. Maybe that's what people mean when they say it doesn't taste real -- that it's the variety and the imperfections that give real food its character, while replicated food, however perfectly reproduced, is just too uniform. You'd get tired of every single turkey sandwich tasting exactly the same, no matter how good it was the first time.

And even that probably could be worked around. Instead of 'scanning' a single turkey sandwich, scan 10,000 of them from all over the Federation, determine what factors makes them different in terms of taste and texture and such, and program those as random variations in the recipe.

 

[Redshirt214]

I'd say that, because taste is a perception, whilst replicated food is molecularly identical to naturally grown food in every way, because the humans on the show know it isn't "real" it somehow doesn't taste right to them. Basically, the whole thing is the result of the wonky way in which human perceive the world... if your food materializes from thin air in a slot, it's just never quite going to be right.

Amusingly, that probably means if you said you cooked something, but actually replicated it, it's likely that the person you served the food wouldn't know the difference (much live cheap vs expensive wine). I wonder how many times old Nelix pulled that trick?

It's the same kind of messed up perception that makes "home cooking" taste so good, even though you know it isn't Gordon Ramsey level good you have positive emotions connected to it so it tastes great to you.

I guess the complaints about replicator food sort of reflective of the 1990s era cynicism towards technology (and possibly diet foods of the era); that there were some things technology would never quite replicate. I'm not sure if the original show would have made such comments, it doesn't quite fit the 1960s era optimism about technology... but then again TOS had turkeys in ovens* and Kirk moaning about salads, so I don't know. On the other hand, everyone seemed more than happy to eat their technicolor platonic solids in the mess hall, and the only other complaints about food were when the Tribbles ate it all or when power was out and the coffee got cold.


*(Definitely early season weirdness, but I always visualize that scene as Cook looking on in horror as live Turkeys burn in the ovens. I know that's not what happened to the ex-meatloafs, but the thought of a traumatized Cook and Charlie misunderstanding Turkey amuses me.)

 

[CorporalCaptain]

whilst replicated food is molecularly identical to naturally grown food in every way

This is an assumption that has been challenged at multiple points throughout the thread, and canonical evidence has been provided supporting the contention that it is a false assumption. It would be reasonable for at least some replicated food to be chemically indistinguishable from the real thing, but has it ever been said in canon that all replicated food is chemically identical to its naturally produced counterpart? I don't recall any such reference, but I'd be interested to know, if there is one.

 

[Timo]

All evidence seems to be missing, that is, neutral.

Things being neutral, why would replicated food patterns differ from "real" food? This would require extra effort, as opposed to merely scanning some "real" stuff and then reproducing it again and again: somebody would have to design the differing patterns, and carefully at that, lest it become poison.

What could be won by that? Perhaps the pattern would be simpler than the "real" one without yet being poison. But this is never indicated. Perhaps the pattern could be tailored to remove certain features of "real" food, such as fattening or intoxicating effects. But synthehol is never said to gain its special characteristics from replication, say.

Replicators seem to have "perfection" as a default setting, considering their achievements ("Rivals" first and foremost, I guess). But if perfection is trivial, why would the Romulans fumble it in "Data's Day"? (Then again, they had no reason to reveal their cards at the conclusion, and still did - so the plot all along may have been to assassinate the genuine Vulcan envoy and then make it look as if she were a Romulan spy being extracted... Resulting in all sorts of intel victories as SFI in vain and error tried to undo the "damage" of poor T'Pel's career.)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kor]

The possibility has been brought up of using your own recipes with the replicator. Apparently, this can potentially have poor outcomes, just as if you were actually cooking and did something incorrectly, left the dish in the oven too long, or there was an issue with a defective oven overheating (or not heating up enough), and a bunch of other real-world factors.

I'm thinking of that time in VOY "Ashes to Ashes" when Janeway's "replicator decided to liquefy the pot roast," and also "Shattered" when Janeway "burned the roast" with the replicator, resulting in delayed dinner for her and Chakotay. How does stuff like that even happen? Janeway must have entered some of the recipe parameters incorrectly, or the replicator somehow wasn't programmed to correctly replicate the results of certain parts of the cooking process. Apparently Janeway thought that the problem was with the replicator and not her recipe, since she saw the need to dismantle the whole thing to work on the circuitry.

Kor

 

[Timo]

Well, the replicators of that ship were out of order after "Caretaker", and Janeway never let go of the rationing system that was supposed to address the problem of replicator shortcomings early on in the show. She could have been clinging on to the rationing for purely disciplinary reasons, but it's also easy to assume that they never quite managed to get the replicators fixed.

After all, their inability to fix them for the first two years was rather explicit, and even though they then finally got out of Kazon/Trabe space and into the realm of folks who knew something about technology and didn't always shoot at sight, they did get to be all on their own many times later on, too.

So the machine rather than the user could indeed be at fault here, yet only on (inopportune) occasion. The replicators constantly breaking down would mean Janeway would never try to replicate a pot roast: the day it came out smelling good, it would assuredly be poison (or perhaps an explosive).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[fireproof78]

The possibility has been brought up of using your own recipes with the replicator. Apparently, this can potentially have poor outcomes, just as if you were actually cooking and did something incorrectly, left the dish in the oven too long, or there was an issue with a defective oven overheating (or not heating up enough), and a bunch of other real-world factors.

I'm thinking of that time in VOY "Ashes to Ashes" when Janeway's "replicator decided to liquefy the pot roast," and also "Shattered" when Janeway "burned the roast" with the replicator, resulting in delayed dinner for her and Chakotay. How does stuff like that even happen? Janeway must have entered some of the recipe parameters incorrectly, or the replicator somehow wasn't programmed to correctly replicate the results of certain parts of the cooking process. Apparently Janeway thought that the problem was with the replicator and not her recipe, since she saw the need to dismantle the whole thing to work on the circuitry.

Kor

Probably a misattributed temperature code. Hate it when that happens.

More on topic I think the biggest thing with replicated food is sameness. It is always the same. Same pattern, made to perfection, always consistent. It's the ultimate comfort food that many crave while others want that variety. Especially on ships of exploration which are actually going out there and trying new things.

 

[Timo]

A certain element of randomness follows from the demonstrated ability to choose the temperature. I gather a few other parameters, chosen on a sliding scale, would also have interesting and chaotic effects on the end product. And perhaps some people like to toy with those, even though they lack the competence to program an all-new pot roast taste, and the menu doesn't contain more than fifteen preprogrammed and available taste variants.

Most users probably just prefer to settle on a pattern, tho. Just as with everything else in life.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Well, to me the obvious explanation -- for cooked food at least -- lies in the uniform cooking method, which is presumably similar to a microwave, which as anyone who has one (or eaten at a chain restaurant that reheats meals using one) will confirm does not produce the same results as baking or frying, or even pan cooking.

 

[Timo]

Why would there be a cooking method involved? We see no evidence of cooking taking place - only of completed products getting their temperature selected at some stage of the process, sometimes disastrously, often not. Picard doesn't "make" tea by ordering cold water with tea in it and then introducing heat that will result in the taste seeping into the water over time, say: there is no time involved, and the taste is already in the water, and Picard merely gets to select how hot that water is.

In other words, Janeway should be able to order "Pot roast, icy cold" and get a well-done lump of meat that just happens to be icy cold now. No cooking involved anywhere.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[UssGlenn]

Probably a misattributed temperature code

Celsius vs Fahrenheit?

What if the issue is that people inputting the original recipes just aren't very good at it? You have engineers putting in parameters to make dishes from scratch without scanning an original. Then on the foods that are scanned from an original, the cooks who are actually good at making food from scratch might not want their dishes scanned at all, for a variety of reasons (for one thing it would reduce their own value). Leaving you with amateur made, average tasting dishes to choose from.

 

[Kor]

Celsius vs Fahrenheit?

What if the issue is that people inputting the original recipes just aren't very good at it? You have engineers putting in parameters to make dishes from scratch without scanning an original. Then on the foods that are scanned from an original, the cooks who are actually good at making food from scratch might not want their dishes scanned at all, for a variety of reasons (for one thing it would reduce their own value). Leaving you with amateur made, average tasting dishes to choose from.

In our time period, some celebrity chefs put their name on frozen food products, ostensibly having been personally involved in developing the recipes. Of course, it isn't actually as good as if that chef were to personally prepare a similar meal for you at a restaurant. But it's much better than the cheaper, run-of-the-mill frozen food products. Maybe in the 24th century, some well-known chefs will do something similar, endorsing a particular line of replicator meal formulations even though it's not exactly like what they would prepare and serve at their own restaurant.

Kor

 

[BillJ]

"You've seen something as fresh and tasty as meat, but inorganically materialized out of patterns used by our transporters." - Will Riker, "Lonely Among Us"

 

[cooleddie74]

So...inorganically would imply no actual animal matter is replicated but still given the taste of meat so as to draw as little attention as possible to the fact the customer is eating what amounts to a transporter pattern comprised of nothing but artificially-created subroutines.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

"You've seen something as fresh and tasty as meat, but inorganically materialized out of patterns used by our transporters." - Will Riker, "Lonely Among Us"

Thanks for that, but still that's a very far cry from chemically identical to the real thing.

 

[BillJ]

Thanks for that, but still that's a very far cry from chemically identical to the real thing.

It was just in reference to taste. I didn't know the thread had moved onto it being chemically identical. If it tastes like the real thing, does it really matter if it was made of plants and other matter?

 

[Relayer1]

If replicators (and holodecks) use transporter technology, and transporter technology is up to the job of assembling your whole body, your brain and it's contents, it's certainly up to materialising a steak.