Why do people love''WARS'' more then''TREK''?

[CaptainHawk1]

The same just with spock ears and a James Kirk t-shirt. That's what makes the 'humour' so effective. Sling a multi coloured scarf around the neck and you've got a Doctor Who fan etc...


It's a great lazy and unimaginative joke.

Oh, quit crying, you big baby.

It was a joke, and quite frankly it's pretty clever.

And not for nothing, most of that stuff is unique to SW fans.

Keep it lighthearted, folks - this is supposed to be a GOOD WEEK for us Trek fans.

I'm not even remotely serious. Just bustin some chops.

I'm a huge SW fan, BTW so don't take my idiotic ramblings to heart.

 

[Thor Damar]

I'm going to apologise, I think I took the cartoon FAR to seriously for my own good and it seems to have caused some friction.
Oops

Humour is subjective and if everybody else finds something funny and I don't then I'm in the wrong.

I now return you to your scheduled thread

 

[miraclefan]

I've recently reasoned that Star Wars has racist themes and undercurrents - and not the shallow ones most people think of. It's worse than that. And Ｉhave a headache an don't want to go into it, but I plan to write a paper on it at some point.

Can you Give Examples?

 

[trevanian]

I remember when the original Star Wars movie came out, I saw it as a kid and was blown away. I would say that 70s show episode featuring Star Wars captures the excitement and reaction of people who first saw the film in 1977. You have to remember before Star Wars the only realistic science fiction film based in space was 2001:A Space Odyessy, on tv we had Star Trek but even by the 70's it already started to look old and then there was a British tv show called, Space 1999 that had pretty good effects but bad stories and that was about it. There was also Planet of the Apes but those films had just a few minutes of space scenes. Star Wars lanched a whole series of expensive high budget science fiction films including Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Alien, Battlestar Galactica, Blade Runner and of course Star Trek - The Motion Picture. Many people have said that if there was no Star Wars film there never would have been Star Trek on the big screen. The original Star Wars movies I believe worked on many levels its not just good verses evil, and lets not forget George Lucas was influenced by Joseph Campbell who was an expert on world mythology. I still think the Star Trek universe offers us more stories but in reality I would say the best Trek stories still belong in seasons I and II of the original series, that is why I have zero expectations from JJ Abrams.

If you don't know your past you......

Those of you under 35 have no idea...unless you've really studied.

Try this experiment: Only watch sci-fi and fantasy created before 1977 and compare with Star Wars (original) and see what I mean.

You have boring, toothpicks and tape F/X --combined WITH BAD scripts and dialogue. ---oh man it's aweful. Many old sci -fi films were tedious and painful to follow-they made little sense---they were worse than any episode of Enterprise. Ha ha.

This is all you'd have:

Logan's Run
Godzilla Films
Phase 4
War of the Worlds
Invaders from Mars
Classic Trek
Charleton Heston and ape costumes
Bozo the clown
Elvira
The Banana splits
Comic books
Black and White Flash Gordan movies
Lone Ranger
Lorne Green (Bonanza--not BSG)
Osmond Christmas special
Ironsides starring Raymond Burr
Columbo
(I'm being silly--but this is what was on TV as well---and a certain factor plays into this as well---TV movies were very SLOW paced)
Watch all these things and then watch Star Wars--you'll get it!

Sure there are some gems in here----but watch and compare; you'll see.

No matter what the raving Trek fans tell you; if it weren't for SW there'd be no TNG, TMP, DS9 or JJ Abram's trek.

Star Wars started it's campaign at a Trek convention, yes, so Trek is the grandaddy; Lucas said it himself----but, if it weren't for the genius of the flanneled one---I doubt you'd have Jean-Luc Picard.

It is hard to know where to begin, you have got so many damn things wrong in this post (and no, saying you're being silly is no defense, you took the time to write it.)

First off, there was a ST feature in development with everybody signed and a tremendous tech crew BEFORE SW came out. The ST feature was cancelled as a result of SW success, and then they spent a few months doing the phase II dickaround before TMP surfaced out of that. If SW hadn't happened, we'd have had a FUN (stress that) Trek movie out in 1978, one that would have probably outgrossed SUPERMAN.

Even if the thing had bombed, it was still an exploitable Paramount property; keep in mind that Par pretty much always goes back to their properties, even if it is 5 or 6 years between SATURDAY NIGHT FEVERs or 15-16 years between GODFATHER 2 & 3.

We'd've had more Trek. Thing is, it'd've happened w/o Berman, so it'd probably have been a lot better than most of the ModernTrek era we did get.

As for your dismissing preSW SF ... For every GATTACA that we have had in the last 30 years, there is a SILENT RUNNING to go with it from before that time. There is plenty of pre SW crap, true, but there is miles of Post-SW crap (including most SW.) If you have a problem with really beautiful effects work like the stuff in 2001 and SILENT (and even DAY THE EARTH), that is more something you have to work out rather than waste bandwidth using that myopia to promote a dead-end agenda.

I didn't dislike SW when it came out ... I was disappointed with a lot of it, but the way the fx were edited and the sound and music really helped it a ton. But the fx didn't hold a candle to the ambitious and successful work done for CE3K a few months later (which I just rewatched, and the fx are still marvelous.) SW is a matter of cutting and luck and timing, because on top of everything else, it really cashed in on what should have been Paramount's windfall if they'd just been able to get even a tiny Trek pic out in 1976, when trek mania was truly a physical force (and you should be able to remember this, since this is just before the fans even got the Prez to rename the first shuttle as ENTERPRISE.)

 

[T'Bonz]

Come on dude, you have to post the one for Star Trek! (It's probably not very different!)

 

[miraclefan]

Come on dude, you have to post the one for Star Trek! (It's probably not very different!)

Anybody else notice the un-ziped fly? I swear I've seen this guy before at some convention!And if there IS a ''anatomy of a star trek fan'' I'm willing to bet they would have ''hair by Shatner'' products. (a piece)

 

[Thrall]

I would have absolutely loved to have seen some Ewoks chowing down on some Stormtroopers. The look on the faces of the Rebels would have been priceless.

How do you know they didn't? Were those really just Stormtrooper helmets they were banging on or were they severed heads?

 

[I am not Spock]

Trek would still have returned if SW never came out. Maybe not in the same form we actually received, but Phase 2 would have been released.

 

[I am not Spock]

However, I doubt we would have got TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT and the movies if not for the success of Star Wars.

 

[CaptainStoner]

I would have absolutely loved to have seen some Ewoks chowing down on some Stormtroopers. The look on the faces of the Rebels would have been priceless.

How do you know they didn't? Were those really just Stormtrooper helmets they were banging on or were they severed heads?

Had to have been an empty helmet to work as a drum, but that doesn't mean the Ewoks didn't eat well for some time after the battle.

 

[Praetor]

I would have absolutely loved to have seen some Ewoks chowing down on some Stormtroopers. The look on the faces of the Rebels would have been priceless.

How do you know they didn't? Were those really just Stormtrooper helmets they were banging on or were they severed heads?

Had to have been an empty helmet to work as a drum, but that doesn't mean the Ewoks didn't eat well for some time after the battle.

If George can make editorial retcons, I can make mental ones.

 

[Ziz]

I've recently reasoned that Star Wars has racist themes and undercurrents - and not the shallow ones most people think of. It's worse than that. And Ｉhave a headache an don't want to go into it, but I plan to write a paper on it at some point.

Can you Give Examples?

What he's probably referring to is the general structure of the SW universe

Rebellion is American, Empire is British (for the most part...odd exception here and there, though, notably Kenobi's accent)
Aliens are second class citizens, not allowed in the Empire.
Droids, as intelligent as ones like R2 and 3PO are, are literally just tools, the SW equivalents of hammers, drills, and saws.

Trek is more or less the same - the Federation accepts everyone regardless of appearance or beliefs. Klingons and Romulans are elitist, you have to be born into their system to be accepted. That's what an Empire is - an organization that exists only to further its own existence and serve its own needs.

Look at Planet Of The Apes -
Humans are the animals, fodder for hunts and lab testing.
Among the apes, there is a heirarchy - Orangutans are the government, Chimpanzees are the scientists, Apes are the military & police. Same basic concept - different levels of society being "put in their place" by other levels.

The "racist themes" in Star Wars are just the basic structure of storytelling - the little guy rises up to, if not overthrow his oppressors, then at least gain equality among them.