Why do people get so offended when other's don't like what they do?

[Kaijima]

Re: Why do people get so offended when other's don't like what they do

On a side note, my problem here and on other message boards is mostly that I can insult everyone who is not an official member of the community (I could call Charlie Sheen a drunk fuckup, for instance, when he behaves like one), but if I call a community member an asshole if he behaves like one, I get warnings, etc... that's pretty hypocritical.

No, that's the problems with managing tribal dynamics.

Moderators of explicit and discreet communities have to keep order within the boundaries, and that includes keeping the members from acting like twits to one another.

However, on most internet communities, including this one, criticism of people who are acting like assholes is in my experience fairly common and quite permitted. It's sh**ting up the board in the process of doing so, that is unnecessary spam and so gets a warning.

The whole "HE THREW POOP SO I GET TO THROW TWICE AS MUCH POOP BACK!" Internet mentality is pretty immature. Maybe if you inhabit 4Chan, it works out better...

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Re: Why do people get so offended when other's don't like what they do

One theory I've found attractive is that, online, people feel no consequences for their actions. Hence, their actions expand in degrees of offensiveness, as if into a vacuum.

I don't take it to suggest that people are necessarily or always behaving with malice when they are rude online, but people's online emotional ages can be quite immature at times. Maturation begins when people realize that others are out there, who feel the way they do, and that the content of the posts flowing through their computer window is not generated by a machine (except when it's bot spam).

The other side of this is that some people tend to state their own opinions in very flat-footed ways as statements of self-evident fact, and it comes across as arrogant.

Also, quite a few people seem to invest a lot of themselves in pretty elaborate rationalizations of why a certain thing (however trivial) is inevitably and necessarily so - and really do seem to experience an assault on their sense of self when the rationalization is challenged or (much, much worse for some) treated dismissively.

I think online interaction can exacerbate or at least unhealthily stimulate obsessive/compulsive tendencies.

 

[Aragorn]

Re: Why do people get so offended when other's don't like what they do

This goes beyond the internet. The days of "agree to disagree," "respectfully disagree" and "healthy debate" are long gone. Now days it's "I want you to be fired immediately for saying something that I don't agree with," even if it's something as trivial as a sports writer saying so-and-so should or should not be in the Hall of Fame.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Re: Why do people get so offended when other's don't like what they do

The other side of this is that some people tend to state their own opinions in very flat-footed ways as statements of self-evident fact, and it comes across as arrogant.

Also, quite a few people seem to invest a lot of themselves in pretty elaborate rationalizations of why a certain thing (however trivial) is inevitably and necessarily so - and really do seem to experience an assault on their sense of self when the rationalization is challenged or (much, much worse for some) treated dismissively.

I think online interaction can exacerbate or at least unhealthily stimulate obsessive/compulsive tendencies.

I'm not convinced that the elaborate rationalizations are intrinsic to internet posting. Upthread it was pointed out that people are normally that way about a lot of things, such as religion and politics. It's as if once people have formed their opinions, they will often stick to them come hell or high water. This leads to elaborate or even irrational rationalizations, double standards, and so on.

I wonder if the identification of self with position on an issue derives from the psychological stress one feels when a belief is contradicted, which can upset the whole mental process. In other words, could one's defensive stance be subconsciously aimed to try to prevent a highly stressful dismantling of his or her own thought processes?

I agree with the "flat-footed-ness". I'm quite guilty of it. I wonder what processes there are that encourage that sort of tone.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Re: Why do people get so offended when other's don't like what they do

This goes beyond the internet. The days of "agree to disagree," "respectfully disagree" and "healthy debate" are long gone. Now days it's "I want you to be fired immediately for saying something that I don't agree with," even if it's something as trivial as a sports writer saying so-and-so should or should not be in the Hall of Fame.

F2F, however, people who want to get along at a social function and enjoy themselves still just change the subject. Online, almost any attempt to do so is short-circuited - if not by one of the originating posters, then by someone who wants to stir the shit.

 

[theenglish]

Re: Why do people get so offended when other's don't like what they do

In some ways I can understand why people go out of their way to defend something that they like, but I can't figure out why people need to get on forums and trash shows and movies just for the heck of it.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Re: Why do people get so offended when other's don't like what they do

I can't figure out why people need to get on forums and trash shows and movies just for the heck of it.

This is a really good question.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Re: Why do people get so offended when other's don't like what they do

I can understand why people will offer contrary opinions at length in a given conversation, but I really don't get people who dislike a movie or show persistently and over long periods of time remain active criticizing - and in many cases, simply being nakedly provocative about - shows and movies in forums mainly populated by people who like the thing in question.

 

[Aragorn]

Re: Why do people get so offended when other's don't like what they do

In some ways I can understand why people go out of their way to defend something that they like, but I can't figure out why people need to get on forums and trash shows and movies just for the heck of it.

So you don't understand someone who says he hates everything about Enterprise yet will watch every single episode and spend more time posting about it than even the biggest fans? Not that something like that has ever happened on this board.

 

[flemm]

Re: Why do people get so offended when other's don't like what they do

Part of the issue, I think, is the seemingly permanent nature of internet forum posts, as opposed to the normally ephemeral quality of, say, cocktail chatter.

People have a hard time letting go of internet disagreements because they feel that they have left a permanent little chunk of themselves out there in the ether to be ridiculed or stepped on unless they return endlessly to defend it. It's like the Greeks and Trojans fighting back and forth over Patroclus' corpse. It's not that they care that much about the dead guy (Achilles is the only one who really does, and he's notably absent), it's that they can't stand the idea of the other side making off with the body.

Let's face it, we've all been there at one time or another.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Re: Why do people get so offended when other's don't like what they do

People have a hard time letting go of internet disagreements because they feel that they have left a permanent little chunk of themselves out there in the ether to be ridiculed or stepped on unless they return endlessly to defend it.

Yes, I agree. Protecting reputation is one significant factor.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Re: Why do people get so offended when other's don't like what they do

I don't get it either. I guess people are really insecure if the existence of a contrary opinion intimidates them. Why worry about it?

My favorite is when people trot out the absurd argument that there are no standards of what is good or bad, and it's all just opinion. Poor Will Shakespeare worked so hard, to end up no better than the Twilight novels. I guess that comes from people who don't understand what the standards are, even at the most basic level, so it intimidates them when others seem to know something they don't?

 

[JarodRussell]

Re: Why do people get so offended when other's don't like what they do

I guess that comes from people who don't understand what the standards are, even at the most basic level, so it intimidates them when others seem to know something they don't?

Hm...

A guy on a videogame forum ten years ago actually went so far as to say that when other people liked games he was intellectually convinced were crap, that it was a legitimate attack on his intelligence and competency. He literally justified instigating flamewars and ad hominem attacks this way.

And that's the way some people think. When you're convinced something is crap, it's warm and reassuring to tell yourself that anyone who likes it can't possibly be seeing something that you, in your high and mighty throne, have misinterpreted or overlooked.

It's much easier to conclude that "they're all morons".

Yep.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Re: Why do people get so offended when other's don't like what they do

Well, I wouldn't know what the universal standards of quality are for videogames or even that there are any. I was thinking of that more in terms of just basic storytelling standards that have been around since the days of Aeschylus. There are certain baseline standards for intelligent debate that everyone should be familiar with, and have learned in high school at the latest, but you know the state of education nowadays...

oh this reminds me of the SGU debates

They weren't debates, it was the fans gonig "YOU JUST DON'T LIKE CHANGE!!!" when everyone who didn't like it was trying to explain why.. it's boring, the characters are 2D, the writing is horrible, it's a soup opera in space with boring characters, they rarely used the Stargate.

Soup opera is right. That's an example of an argument that might be too nuanced for everyone to get. It's good that the writers are changing things, but bad that they can't actually pull off the change they were going for, so that maybe it would have been better not to make the change at all. Huh, that's actually not that nuanced of an argument, is it?

So that's a good example of how the lack of understanding what the standards are, shuts off any intelligent debate. If you don't understand what makes a story good vs. bad, then how can you argue that SG:U is bad? If any random collection of incidents occurring to any random collection of characters is equal to any other, all debate on the matter is rendered pointless and there's nothing left but arbitrary whim.

 

[JarodRussell]

Re: Why do people get so offended when other's don't like what they do

Well, I wouldn't know what the universal standards of quality are for videogames or even that there are any. I was thinking of that more in terms of just basic storytelling standards that have been around since the days of Aeschylus. There are certain baseline standards for intelligent debate that everyone should be familiar with, and have learned in high school at the latest, but you know the state of education nowadays...

My point had nothing to do with videogame standards or storytelling standards, but with the basic argument logic you've been using: if you disagree with their point, just assume they are not as informed.


And as for standards... these are merely artistic standards. They are neither technical standards nor natural laws. What is the better artwork, this or that? You can't even say what's the better crafted image, because in art it IS only a matter of opinion.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Re: Why do people get so offended when other's don't like what they do

What intrigues me is the degree to which this hostility (in which I participate, duh) seems to be magnified by the online medium - and that's been true at least since the usenet days.

Because online messages (and written text in general) doesn't portray emotional tone or context well, it's all too easy to misinterpret someone, and it can escalate and get out of control so easily. That's one of my theories, anyway.

Also there is no downside to being a jerk online. You don't know anyone personally so your social connections or income will never be threatened. Nobody will try to punch you. It's wonderful being so free, so I can understand why people take advantage of it.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Re: Why do people get so offended when other's don't like what they do

Well, I wouldn't know what the universal standards of quality are for videogames or even that there are any. I was thinking of that more in terms of just basic storytelling standards that have been around since the days of Aeschylus. There are certain baseline standards for intelligent debate that everyone should be familiar with, and have learned in high school at the latest, but you know the state of education nowadays...

My point had nothing to do with videogame standards or storytelling standards, but with the basic argument logic you've been using: if you disagree with their point, just assume they are not as informed.

Only if I know they are not informed. I'm talking about reeeeal basic standards of storytelling, along the lines of Chekov's rule about a handgun appearing in a play. Some people don't even have that level of understanding.

For instance, bigdaddy complained about "2D characters" in SG:U. Does everyone agree that "2D characters are bad"? You'd think so, but there have been many cases where I've seen people argue that nothing is inherently bad in a show. If the writers "intend" for the characters to be 2D, or want to show a gun on a table that nobody uses later on, that's okay. Nope, sorry, that's bad writing. If the writers intended to write badly, it excuses nothing.

It's that kind of stuff I find absurd. I'm not going to start insisting that everyone share my tastes to the degree of, hey I like it when the lead actor has dark hair and blue or green eyes, so if you prefer a lead with red hair and freckles, you're dumb.

 

[theenglish]

Re: Why do people get so offended when other's don't like what they do

In some ways I can understand why people go out of their way to defend something that they like, but I can't figure out why people need to get on forums and trash shows and movies just for the heck of it.

So you don't understand someone who says he hates everything about Enterprise yet will watch every single episode and spend more time posting about it than even the biggest fans? Not that something like that has ever happened on this board.

Actually it is a huge pet peeve of mine. I will actually defend shows I don't necessarily like because people just post objectionable things about them. But to clarify, I am not talking about normal criticism, I am talking about the weird, passionate insulting criticism that we so often see.

 

[Myasishchev]

Re: Why do people get so offended when other's don't like what they do

This goes beyond the internet. The days of "agree to disagree," "respectfully disagree" and "healthy debate" are long gone.

Did those days ever actually exist?

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Re: Why do people get so offended when other's don't like what they do

I can't figure out why people need to get on forums and trash shows and movies just for the heck of it.

This is a really good question.

Because it's fun.