Why do non gamers bash gamers?

[Relayer1]

Well, I'm glad my post stirred the pot somewhat - I thought it would. Its certainly livened things up ! I wasn't trolling, it is a representation of my feelings to some extent but exaggerated a little.

I agree with the comment about tabletop RPG's - I've had much more fun with them !

You might be surprised at how familiar I am with modern games - I take an interest and buy most of my son's games. I really do think the Portal games are impressive. Far Cry 3 is a recent buy and yes, there is some depth there, but there is also a lot of repetition (nobbling radio towers for instance), and fairly by the numbers collecting wealth to buy bigger guns. Theres certainly more to it than the shooters packing the shelves. Destiny looks as if it might be interesting in the not too distant future.

Yes, a good chunk of my attitude is good old fashioned prejudice, but I really do find gaming dull. Obviously many don't, and it wouldn't do for us all to like the same things. Purely from a financial perspective, games are the future.

My sons a good guy - he's bright and a nice person (teenager-itis notwithstanding) and gaming isn't turning him into a moron or a thug. I'd just like him to be a bit more rounded...

 

[Kelthaz]

This topic has certainly take a strange and unexpected turn right off a cliff. Interesting.

 

[ralfy]

No, you can't. Video games are interactive, so that rules out books and movies as they're linear. As for board games, they're fun, but that game of Pandemic I played last night has absolutely no relation to that game of Grand Theft Auto 4 I just wrapped up. The thrill of that parachute/boat/car race I took part in isn't something a board game can replicate.

Yes, you can. Books and movies aren't "linear" in the sense that you can go back to particular chapters and scenes, talk to others about them, create other works of art based on them, etc. There's your interactivity. Believe it or not, it has been taking place for decades. In fact, books and movies themselves are a result of that same imagination.

The same goes for board games, not to mention war games, which have existed for centuries.

Finally, if what you are looking for is "thrill," then nothing beats the real thing. But if you want to find meaning in that "thrill," then you don't need video games.

Your interpretation of what a video game is is very narrow and not at all in line with what they currently are. Simulation is very much an element of video games and has become increasingly important over the last decade as games attempt to become more immersive. Open world sandbox games are some of the most popular around because of the freedom they give they player to have fun in a simulated world. Whether you get your kicks from the historical tourism in the Assassin's Creed games, or from tethering two jetliners together in Just Cause 2 just to see what happens, they're still video games. They're not something that any other form of entertainment can really replicate, and they'll continue to improve as our technology does.

No, simulation is not "very much an element of video games," as the latter includes even interactive fiction.

The problem is that your definition of video games is so narrow you don't even include games that involve little or no graphics.

 

[BennieGamali]

cray cray

Sorry, but you're going to have to go on the ignore list for this.

Not a problem.

In any case. I've never enjoyed tabletop games. Except when I was little. I prefer playing alone. I would play solitary for hours. Not sure I agree that you're not a gamer unless you play tabletop games though. But that might be because i have never heard the word "gamer" until a few years ago and it's always been related to computer games.

Back when I played WoW I was a roleplayer, we used to call "gamers" lolboys back then. So we bashed gamers I gues. But the thing was that "lolboys" were terrifically annoying. They would always trash events or just try to ruin RP or whisper insults at roleplayers. I wouldn't say all gamers are lolboys, but all lolboys are gamers.. or at least most of them.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Board games are having a revival. Should rename them bored games IMHO.

 

[Relayer1]

Board games are having a revival. Should rename them bored games IMHO.

I've never been a big fan of board games either (not counting tabletop roleplaying). I find them duller than video games !

 

[TheGodBen]

Far Cry 3 is a recent buy and yes, there is some depth there, but there is also a lot of repetition (nobbling radio towers for instance), and fairly by the numbers collecting wealth to buy bigger guns.

I find that the radio towers actually break the repetition in that game as each is unique and provides some 3D platforming action in a game that's mostly about shooting things. As for the upgrades, while money was earned in a fairly standard way, many of the upgrades required hunting dangerous animals which provided some fun unscripted encounters. Two of my favourite moments in the game involved hunting, the first was when I got chased by a pack of Komodo dragons, the second time I got pinned down by a tiger and fell off a cliff.

I apologise if I came off as rude yesterday, but I just get so annoyed at the implication that games are a lesser form of entertainment somehow. It's like saying that opera is more entertaining than a game of pool, which is like comparing apples and spaghetti bolognese.

Yes, you can. Books and movies aren't "linear" in the sense that you can go back to particular chapters and scenes, talk to others about them, create other works of art based on them, etc. There's your interactivity.

Quit being wilfully obtuse. You know exactly what I mean.

This may surprise you considering we're both posting on a message board centred around discussing a TV/film franchise, but I actually do enjoy watching TV shows and films and discussing them with others. The experience is absolutely nothing like playing a video game.

Finally, if what you are looking for is "thrill," then nothing beats the real thing. But if you want to find meaning in that "thrill," then you don't need video games.

I can't visit 16th century Istanbul because I was born 500 years too late for that. Nor can I attach two jetliners with an infinitely strong tether because that's financially prohibitive, not to mention physically impossible. And if I were to try and do some of the things I've done in Grand Theft Auto in real life, I would be spending the rest of my life in prison. Or I'd die in a car crash/shoot-out/both.

Video games allow us to experience things we either can't or don't want to do in real life.

No, simulation is not "very much an element of video games," as the latter includes even interactive fiction.

The problem is that your definition of video games is so narrow you don't even include games that involve little or no graphics.

Hey, before you try and throw my criticism of your posts back in my face, could you at least check to make sure that it makes sense first? I included no such qualifiers of what makes a video game in my post. If it's interactive and works off a screen then it's a video game, and that includes old-school text adventures as well as the sudoku app on my phone.

Simulation plays a major part in the video game industry, just like set design plays a major part in the film industry. Not all games use it, just like not all films use physical sets. And simulation isn't exclusive to video games, just like set design isn't exclusive to films. But to say that simulation isn't a big part of gaming is disingenuous.

 

[Davros]

Not sure I agree that you're not a gamer unless you play tabletop games though. But that might be because i have never heard the word "gamer" until a few years ago and it's always been related to computer games.

I probably only feel that way because we were calling our selves gamers before computer games were an option and home video games consisted of Pong or an Atari 2600 at best. Learning complicated rules, carrying strange dice, and spending hours around hex maps carried a social stigma as well.

 

[Relayer1]

I apologise if I came off as rude yesterday, but I just get so annoyed at the implication that games are a lesser form of entertainment somehow.

No need to apologise - you weren't rude. A bit hacked off, certainly, but not rude, and I did pretty much set out to fulfill the thread title...I did expect a response ! It wasn't just nerd rage - you and some of the other posters (but you in particular) made some good and considered points.

I've had this conversation with my son many times and still financially support his gaming ! I haven't changed my mind though...

 

[Starbreaker]

Everyone who likes something has those 'haters'. But, truthfully, there are people who spend 100+ hours a week playing video games, have no job, and use bedpans so they don't have to leave the TV screen. Just don't be one of those guys.

 

[BennieGamali]

Not sure I agree that you're not a gamer unless you play tabletop games though. But that might be because i have never heard the word "gamer" until a few years ago and it's always been related to computer games.

I probably only feel that way because we were calling our selves gamers before computer games were an option and home video games consisted of Pong or an Atari 2600 at best. Learning complicated rules, carrying strange dice, and spending hours around hex maps carried a social stigma as well.

Aha! Well then I can see what you mean. It's all about terminology. If that is the right word.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Seriously though, I think the gamers who play five hours a day do have an addiction. That group just represents a very small percentage of gamers who get unfairly identified with the whole.

Hmm I dunno about that. A lot of gamers play more than 5 hours a day. A lot of them play all day. I think the cray cray gamers are the one who decide not to socialize at all. Like.. Get invited to a fun thing with friends and says no to play instead.

I would agree with that. The measure of whether you're addicted isn't strictly a measure of 'Number of hours you play'. It's what you're not doing because you're playing that much.

If you're at home with nothing to do all day, and play five hours, you're not an addict. If you ditch school, ditch work, and miss your son's baseball game so you can stay home and play video games, you totally are.

Criticisms that playing video games are weird from people who watch movies or hang out at bars all day don't carry a lot of weight. They're just another form of entertainment, and while they may not be a creative pursuit they are certainly not mindless.

I have crazy good reflexes, fine motor control, spatial reasoning skills, and hand eye coordination now. Thank you video games.

Maybe we just need to find some ways to be smug about playing video games to even the tables. Like, 'Oh, you read books? Heh, those don't even require skill!'

 

[B.J.]

Board games are having a revival. Should rename them bored games IMHO.

I've never been a big fan of board games either (not counting tabletop roleplaying). I find them duller than video games !

Y'all aren't playing with the right people! Back in college, we would sometimes have a game night where we all brought in various board games. One of the most popular ones, strangely enough, was Candy Land! Even that can be extremely fun if everyone's in the right frame of mind. People would start chanting "Plumpy! Plumpy! Plumpy!" if one person was too far ahead!

 

[ralfy]

Board games are having a revival. Should rename them bored games IMHO.

It's possible that the revival is due partly to social interaction.

 

[ralfy]

Quit being wilfully obtuse. You know exactly what I mean.

Games in general involve interactivity! The same goes for works such as books.

This may surprise you considering we're both posting on a message board centred around discussing a TV/film franchise, but I actually do enjoy watching TV shows and films and discussing them with others. The experience is absolutely nothing like playing a video game.

Actually, it doesn't surprise me at all, as that is my point.

You do know that there are message boards about video games, too, right? There are even some who prefer not to play particular games but just watch others play through them in video caps.

And how about text-based online games?

I can't visit 16th century Istanbul because I was born 500 years too late for that. Nor can I attach two jetliners with an infinitely strong tether because that's financially prohibitive, not to mention physically impossible. And if I were to try and do some of the things I've done in Grand Theft Auto in real life, I would be spending the rest of my life in prison. Or I'd die in a car crash/shoot-out/both.

Don't be confused. When you immerse yourself in 16th-century Istanbul in a video game, then you aren't really experiencing what it is like. Rather, you see with your physical senses what it looks like, but you can do the same by watching documentaries, movies, and reading books and looking at photos of the area. How do you think such video games are made in the first place?

The same goes for GTA. It is a game where you get to have fun playing someone who commits crime. If you want to feel what it is like to be a criminal without becoming one, then you will have to go beyond GTA. There are lots of books, documentaries, and films on the matter.

Video games allow us to experience things we either can't or don't want to do in real life.

No, you can't. They only provide you with part of the experience. Go back to my previous paragraph for examples.

Hey, before you try and throw my criticism of your posts back in my face, could you at least check to make sure that it makes sense first? I included no such qualifiers of what makes a video game in my post. If it's interactive and works off a screen then it's a video game, and that includes old-school text adventures as well as the sudoku app on my phone.

That's exactly your problem: you make no qualifiers, but you claim that video games are not the same as other types of games, even though there are different types of video games, because they allow you to experience what you can't. How does that work for a Sudoku app?

Simulation plays a major part in the video game industry, just like set design plays a major part in the film industry. Not all games use it, just like not all films use physical sets. And simulation isn't exclusive to video games, just like set design isn't exclusive to films. But to say that simulation isn't a big part of gaming is disingenuous.

It's only now that you are making qualifications regarding video games. Are you now referring to video games that don't use simulation?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Board games are having a revival. Should rename them bored games IMHO.

It's possible that the revival is due partly to social interaction.

No. It's hipsters.

 

[Kelthaz]

Board games are having a revival. Should rename them bored games IMHO.

I've never been a big fan of board games either (not counting tabletop roleplaying). I find them duller than video games !

The only people say this are those who believe that the entirety of board games consists of Monopoly, Clue, and Risk.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Board games are only fun when they're a social activity. Not counting the deep-strategic ones like Chess and Go of course. The board games I like are the ones that are strategic but also crazy and chaotic like Cosmic Encounter or Carcasonne. The chaotic craziness of the game ignites the fun personalities of the crazy people you're with.

And the structure of the game takes the pressure off people with social anxiety issues.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Board games are having a revival. Should rename them bored games IMHO.

I've never been a big fan of board games either (not counting tabletop roleplaying). I find them duller than video games !

Y'all aren't playing with the right people! Back in college, we would sometimes have a game night where we all brought in various board games. One of the most popular ones, strangely enough, was Candy Land! Even that can be extremely fun if everyone's in the right frame of mind.

By which you mean, high.

 

[ralfy]

No. It's hipsters.

And families:

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=6845230&page=1