Why Do All Serious Superhero TV Shows Suck?
- Thread starter Dusty Ayres
- Start date
Nah. The money is there. Or can be. I do think we're too critical of live-action.
Just as valid is the fact that the Networks may not know how to do such shows. It seems the decision for every Network is to dilute a show enough to appeal to a large audience.
Heroes would have worked much better, had better writing if the cast wasn't as big and cumbersome and if they didn't keep changing the plot/rehashing the same story line disguised as new season after season. If they would have taken one story idea (say the current story arc) and ran with that from the beginning, we'd have the potential for a much tighter, better story.
Just as valid is the fact that the Networks may not know how to do such shows. It seems the decision for every Network is to dilute a show enough to appeal to a large audience.
Heroes would have worked much better, had better writing if the cast wasn't as big and cumbersome and if they didn't keep changing the plot/rehashing the same story line disguised as new season after season. If they would have taken one story idea (say the current story arc) and ran with that from the beginning, we'd have the potential for a much tighter, better story.
S
Stone_Cold_Sisko
Guest
I suspect there is some truth to the notion posited above that the 'very best' writers do not necessarily want 'that junk' on their resume.
Can you imagine David Simon writing Heroes?
Me neither. otoh if you 'adult-ize' the concept enough and put it on HBO things might open up considerably - ie Alan Ball with 'Tru Blood'. BSG had strong writing also. It's worth noting though that neither of them were SUPERHERO shows - we've never really seen this done with superheroes though.
Even some of the very good genre writers are very clumsy in falling back on the tropes of 'comic book stories'. Its interesting to note, Heroes and Smallville for instance, are filled with ALL of the BAD things about comic book writing - almost like some of them don't realize that the majority of superhero comic book writing isn't actually particularly good writing - the standards are just much lower.
Can you imagine David Simon writing Heroes?
Me neither. otoh if you 'adult-ize' the concept enough and put it on HBO things might open up considerably - ie Alan Ball with 'Tru Blood'. BSG had strong writing also. It's worth noting though that neither of them were SUPERHERO shows - we've never really seen this done with superheroes though. Even some of the very good genre writers are very clumsy in falling back on the tropes of 'comic book stories'. Its interesting to note, Heroes and Smallville for instance, are filled with ALL of the BAD things about comic book writing - almost like some of them don't realize that the majority of superhero comic book writing isn't actually particularly good writing - the standards are just much lower.
Me too.
It's like some of season three of TOS. You get a good sense of good , even great plot lines, but they're more often than not done in by the frantic pacing of a TV show and the kind of budget that just isn't realistic for a show that needs a lot of cash to keep it from being a punchline before the first actor can even get out the first line.
I'm not saying it's always the budget. Some concepts are just stupid, some writers are just lazy idiots and some actors should just shut the hell up and go back to the infomercial game, but I'd still budget comes up in a lot of these shows mentioned.
Lois and Clark season one was great. It was really fun. Teri Hatcher remains to this day as the best Lois Lane. John Shea was convincing as a corrupt businessman Lex. No bullshit with Clark being friends with Lex for several seasons. Amazingly the first season only had three episodes that had kryptonite in it unlike how overused that became in Smallville.
Too bad the last seasons weren't as good.
Too bad the last seasons weren't as good.
but the great thing about the last two seasons was that they were either forgettable or so uninticing that I went outside to get drunk and laid, that to this day there are still Lois and Clark that I have not seen.
Good must watch TV doesn't stand a chance of being mysterious down through the ages because it's consumed and digested completely like chocolate, can't say the same for my need to eat shit.
One day, well into my retirement and dementia when I need a different pain to distract me from the pain of my joints grinding into ancient powder, I might try to watch more Space above and beyond.
Good must watch TV doesn't stand a chance of being mysterious down through the ages because it's consumed and digested completely like chocolate, can't say the same for my need to eat shit.
One day, well into my retirement and dementia when I need a different pain to distract me from the pain of my joints grinding into ancient powder, I might try to watch more Space above and beyond.
Then why not just do it? I mean seriously is a show about a telepathic waitress who loves a vampire and another one about humans being chased through space by robots somehow less ridiculous than the idea of people with unique abilities trying to use their powers to help people?
I suspect there is some truth to the notion posited above that the 'very best' writers do not necessarily want 'that junk' on their resume.
Can you imagine David Simon writing Heroes?
Even some of the very good genre writers are very clumsy in falling back on the tropes of 'comic book stories'. Its interesting to note, Heroes and Smallville for instance, are filled with ALL of the BAD things about comic book writing - almost like some of them don't realize that the majority of superhero comic book writing isn't actually particularly good writing - the standards are just much lower.
It's like when people get all worked up over the latest supposed "groundbreaking" video game that features such and such a writer and X amount of cut scenes and all the reviewers go on and on about how games "finally" have reached the level of writing expected from feature films.
I can literally count on one hand the number of truly well written and directed video games that didn't fall back on done-to-death movie concepts. They just copy copy copy from Hollywood, and most of it isn't very well done. But because it's "just a game" the standard just isn't there, and something that is merely average often gets exalted as something extraordinary.
I can believe that. I think it's actually gotten worse over time. For example, the Final Fantasy series: I actually think the story of the 6th game (which was released as FF3 here on the SNES) had a better story than most of the more recent ones. And it's story still does have a lot of cliches to it.
But as for Superhero-stuff getting less than quality writing but no one caring since it's "just a comic story", that's what basically created the Sci-Fi Ghetto. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SciFiGhetto
But as for Superhero-stuff getting less than quality writing but no one caring since it's "just a comic story", that's what basically created the Sci-Fi Ghetto. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SciFiGhetto
cause the question if flawed. "serious" and "superhero". why aren't most candies sour? although there are some and they are good, most candies are not sour because by nature they are to be sweet. same goes for "superhero" stuff. it's not meant to be "serious". when you try to do so is when you run into problems.
^I don't believe that, and the success of more "serious" super hero movies points away from it.
It's not the subject matter, it's the way it's written and also (especially in years past) the TV production values. It has nothing to do with "moody and serious and realistic" or "light and fun and incredible". Most often, the TV shows use T&A to lure the LCD viewer and feature lame action scenes and special effects. They are generally cliche-laden and lacking in any originality or a real reason to exist. Paper thin characters that the audience can't relate to doing things of no importance that the general audience doesn't care about. Look at shit like Mutant X for prime examples of just about everything that is wrong with most superhero TV shows.
The article kinda misses on the point that most superhero TV shows suck all kinds of ass, you can make a long list of them, serious or otherwise.
It's not the subject matter, it's the way it's written and also (especially in years past) the TV production values. It has nothing to do with "moody and serious and realistic" or "light and fun and incredible". Most often, the TV shows use T&A to lure the LCD viewer and feature lame action scenes and special effects. They are generally cliche-laden and lacking in any originality or a real reason to exist. Paper thin characters that the audience can't relate to doing things of no importance that the general audience doesn't care about. Look at shit like Mutant X for prime examples of just about everything that is wrong with most superhero TV shows.
The article kinda misses on the point that most superhero TV shows suck all kinds of ass, you can make a long list of them, serious or otherwise.
Black Scorpion was a serious show? Did they actually watch it? Then again, in retrospect, it's probably smarter to just say you did.
I'm a bit disappointed that they didn't actually try to come up with a comprehensive answer instead taking easy little potshots.
I'm a bit disappointed that they didn't actually try to come up with a comprehensive answer instead taking easy little potshots.
Reminds me of an old interview Andy Wallace did with Rod Serling in the late 50s right before Twilight Zone premiered. After Serling described Twilight Zone, Wallace stared at Serling and asked, quite earnestly,"So, is it safe to say, for now at least, that you've given up writing anything serious for television?"
Mike Wallace, not Andy Wallace.
And the interview is here on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZ8dTT2BRp4 (part one)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05SlHecA1hk&feature=related (part two)
Part two starts out with the very question you mention.
Ah, that's right.
Yep, I've got it on DVD somewhere. To be fair to Wallace, though, filmed SF before TZ was mostly crap.
I think it goes back to bad and/or lazy writing. Take the show 'Heroes' - the writers lost me when they attempted to make Season 2 as a reboot of Season 1.
I also get annoyed when writers ignore the accepted back story of a hero, although sometimes they can make it work, to an extent. Smallville is one example. Its fine to have a series about a younger Superman finding his way - no problem there. I'll even take the young Clark and young Lex as friends thing. The series did a great job in redefining Luthor as a viable bad guy. Problem is that then the writers don't know when to quit. They have had this need to crank out every damned Superman character and fit them into the series no matter how nonsensical it is. Someone remind me why Lois Lane is in this series again?
I also get annoyed when writers ignore the accepted back story of a hero, although sometimes they can make it work, to an extent. Smallville is one example. Its fine to have a series about a younger Superman finding his way - no problem there. I'll even take the young Clark and young Lex as friends thing. The series did a great job in redefining Luthor as a viable bad guy. Problem is that then the writers don't know when to quit. They have had this need to crank out every damned Superman character and fit them into the series no matter how nonsensical it is. Someone remind me why Lois Lane is in this series again?
Well that's been part of the Superman mythos for awhile and is not original to Smallville. In the Silver and Bronze Age of comics, Lex Luthor was friends with Superboy (not young Clark). Lex blamed Superboy for his hair loss due to a lab accident. This relationship was erased when Byrne rebooted Superman in 1986 and did away with Superboy. However, and probably thanks to the popularity of Smallville and writers like Mark Waid, the teenage relationship between Clark and Luthor has been returned to the continuity. As has Clark Kent as Superboy.
Hasn't Conner Kent, the current Superboy, also returned? I haven't been keeping up in the last year. What about Chris Kent? Lots of CKs running around the DCU now.