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Why didn't Superman (1978) spawn a plethora of superhero films?

Since we've addressed Superman: The Movie, let's look at Batman for a minute. This was a cultural phenomenon. Why did it not lead to more comic heroes hitting the big screen?

It did. There was The Rocketeer, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Dick Tracy, etc. Marvel's rights were generally tied up with different producers, so they only managed some low-budget fare like Captain America (1990) and the aborted Fantastic Four movie that was completed but not released.

Superman was still resting after Superman IV, but DC and Warners did put The Flash and Human Target on TV in the wake of Batman.

Right. The Flash (developed and produced by Danny Bilson and Paul DeMeo, screenwriters of The Rocketeer) was very heavily influenced by the Tim Burton Batman. It turned the Flash into a dark avenger of the night like Batman (or at least tried to; by the second half of the season, the show got much lighter and campier), it had a stylized, retro design style, and it even had a theme by Danny Elfman and episode scores by Elfman's arranger/conductor, Shirley Walker. And it was in turn an influence on Batman: The Animated Series, which had the same composer and a very similar retro/Art Deco look.

There was also RoboCop: The Series in syndication at about the same time.
 
I would add that we actually did get a plethora of superhero-comic adaptations in the wake of Superman: The Movie, except they were on television. The late '70s and early '80s saw live-action TV versions of The Incredible Hulk, Spider-Man, Wonder Woman, and Captain America (in two backdoor-pilot movies). I'd say the reason they were on TV instead of the big screen is because comic books weren't as respectable or mainstream at the time. Superman and Batman were kind of the exceptions to the rule in terms of public profile.

Actually, The Incredible Hulk and Spiderman were well into their second seasons and Wonder Woman its third when Superman: The Movie premiered. So it's not quite correct to say they followed in "the wake of."
 
^^Yeah, I thought that might be the case, but I let it stand because my point was about the overall trend. It could be argued that S:TM was as much a part of that existing trend as the originator of a new one.
 
I'm not really sure what you're disagreeing with. The point I made is that the studios were trying to copy Star Wars, not Superman & that's why there wasn't a deluge of superhero movies after Superman was released.

Whoops. No, just misunderstood the point you were making. Yes, after Star Wars the foaming at the mouth from the major studios was "get me the next Star Wars!" not "get me the next Superman!".

My bad.

I'll take my longhead Superman fetishism back to the basement now...

;)
 
]

Whoops. No, just misunderstood the point you were making. Yes, after Star Wars the foaming at the mouth from the major studios was "get me the next Star Wars!" not "get me the next Superman!".

My bad.

I'll take my longhead Superman fetishism back to the basement now...

;)

No need to apologize! And speaking of basement Superman fetishes, here's my ode to the Justice Leage:

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n114/efickas/P1010011.jpg
 
The success of the Superman films doubtless helped the production of Batman '89 eleven years later....

That Batman film was in the works for years. I remember debating the virtues of a Jack Nicholson Joker (I was against it) when his name was first mentioned in '84.

Besides, Hollywood was a little different back then. Copycat films were not as automatic as today, nor were sequels.


Tom Mankiewicz, who is listed as creative consultant on Superman: TM (but in reality wrote more of the script than Mario Puzo) wrote a script for a Batman movie in the late 1970s. It's very much a companion piece to S:TM and more like Batman Begins than Tim Burton's movie. Somewhat like the Batman comics of the 1970s, it is somewhere between a mix of Adam West campiness (at the end, Batman fights the Joker & henchmen on a giant typewriter) and the grittiness that returned in the 1980s (IIRC, we see both the murders of the Waynes and the Graysons).

It's not too hard to find online and could have made for a decent movie. I'm guessing the reason it wasn't made was because in the public imagination, people still thought of Batman as a campy guy in tights, who fought bad guys to a soundtrack of KER-POW!

As to the original question, Superman was followed by movies of Captain America, Swamp Thing, Dr Strange and tv versions of The Hulk, Spider-man and Wonder Woman. The pilot movies of the former two even got cinema releases. But it is true to say that the movie didn't spawn imitators in the way that X-Men relaunched comic movies or that Star Wars spawned sci-fi epics. I think it's down to a few simple reasons.

Firstly, the flux that Marvel was in, with the rights to their heroes being sold all over the place (IIRC Cannon owned the rights to Spidey for a long time). Secondly, the fact that most of the abilities of our heroes were beyond the capabilities of 1970s SFX gurus. Thirdly, as someone has said, the huge budget of S:TM. And fourthly, the fact that despite the seriousness (for the most part) of that movie, most people still associated superheroes with the campiness of the 1960s Batman show.

I don't buy the explanation that movie studios were less derivative back then. Look at all the movies in the wake of Star Wars - Flash Gordon, the Black Hole, Star Trek, and, on tv, Buck Rogers and BSG. Even Bond went sci-fi with Moonraker. Smokey and the Bandit spawned the Dukes of Hazzard, Burt Reynolds Hooper, where he played a stuntman, was followed by The Fall Guy. And The Towering Inferno was followed by a host of disaster movies.
 
Somewhat like the Batman comics of the 1970s, it is somewhere between a mix of Adam West campiness (at the end, Batman fights the Joker & henchmen on a giant typewriter) and the grittiness that returned in the 1980s (IIRC, we see both the murders of the Waynes and the Graysons).

Oh, the giant typewriters and other giant props were a staple of the '40s/'50s comics, the Bill Finger/Dick Sprang era. As for the renewed grittiness, that began in 1973 with Denny O'Neill's classic story "The Joker's Five-Way Revenge."

Secondly, the fact that most of the abilities of our heroes were beyond the capabilities of 1970s SFX gurus.

I still dispute that. We're far too quick to dismiss pre-CGI effects technology as worthless, but that's bull. Sure, it may look crude to us looking back on it today, but to audiences at the time it was spectacular and highly effective.

Sure, it's true that in superhero films at the time, there would've been some need to scale back some of the action, but that would've been acceptable. And really, what kinds of abilities, specifically, would create so much of a problem? Let's consider it:

Superman: His powers were quite successfully portrayed onscreen.

Batman: No powers, just fighting prowess and gadgets.

Wonder Woman: A similar suite of powers to Superman, plus an invisible plane. The TV show did an adequate job depicting her abilities, and a movie could've done even better.

The Flash: Superspeed could have been accomplished with animation effects.

Green Lantern: Flight could be accomplished as with Superman; the ring effects would be purely a matter of cel animation combined with on-set wirework and mechanical effects (analogous to how Who Framed Roger Rabbit? showed cartoons affecting real-world objects).

Spider-Man: His stunts and agility could be replicated in stop-motion animation. The sweeping camera moves through the city could be accomplished with miniatures. (A villain like Doc Ock could've been handled with a mix of practical effects and stop-motion; note that the vast majority of tentacle shots in Spider-Man 2 were live, on-set effects.)

The Fantastic Four: Okay, Reed's stretching is a problem, but a scaled-back version could have been achieved with prosthetics and stop-motion. Invisibility is an easy effect that's been around in film since the '30s if not earlier. The Thing is simply a matter of prosthetics. The Human Torch would be done with cel animation.

The Hulk: The TV series handled the transformations quite well. On a movie budget, the Hulk could've been shown doing more damage and hurling tanks around courtesy of miniature work.

The X-Men: Cyke's eyebeams are simply an animation effect. Wolverine is just stunts and prosthetic claws, plus a prosthetic mechanical hand for claw-deployment shots and some makeup work for wounds and rapid healing. The Beast is just prosthetics and stunt work; Nightcrawler is that plus jump cuts and a bit of pyrotechnics. Angel could be handled the same way the angel in Barbarella was. Jean is just an actress pantomiming telekinesis while things are lifted on wires. Iceman could be stop-motion or makeup FX, or maybe just be like Shawn Ashmore in the movies and not transform into ice at all. Colossus is prosthetics and standard strong-man stunt work and wirework. Kitty Pryde is just dissolve and split-screen effects, maybe some rotoscoped mattes; "walking through walls" FX have been around since the '60s.

Dr. Strange: A guy waving his hands and intoning stuff. The supernatural effects around him could be achieved analogously to effects in Ghostbusters and Poltergeist.


I don't see anything there that's beyond the capabilities of '70s/'80s FX masters like Dykstra, Trumbull, Winston, Tippett, Edlund, Muren, and the like. Most superpowers aren't that hard to depict onscreen at all, with a few exceptions like stretching or becoming living fire (and to be honest, the CGI fire in the movies' Human Torch isn't that much more convincing than cel-animated fire would've been). No, it wouldn't have looked like modern CG effects, it would've been a bit more scaled back and not quite as convincing, but it would've been just as satisfactory to audiences at the time as the effects in Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Ghostbusters, RoboCop 2, Roger Rabbit, and other pre-CGI epics. The main impediment is that it would've been more expensive and time-consuming. It wasn't technologically prohibitive, but economically so.


I don't buy the explanation that movie studios were less derivative back then. Look at all the movies in the wake of Star Wars - Flash Gordon, the Black Hole, Star Trek, and, on tv, Buck Rogers and BSG. Even Bond went sci-fi with Moonraker. Smokey and the Bandit spawned the Dukes of Hazzard, Burt Reynolds Hooper, where he played a stuntman, was followed by The Fall Guy. And The Towering Inferno was followed by a host of disaster movies.

On this, we agree completely. I'll never understand why people look at the things Hollywood does and assume there's something recent or unusual about them.
 
The success of the Superman films doubtless helped the production of Batman '89 eleven years later....

That Batman film was in the works for years. I remember debating the virtues of a Jack Nicholson Joker (I was against it) when his name was first mentioned in '84.

Are you familiar with Orson Welles' Batman treatment? OK, he didn't do one, but there was a convincing hoax on the interwebs a few years ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Orson_Welles_Batman_Hoax

Wouldn't that have been something?

Oh, and I can't imagine the technology of the late '70s being unable to handle a movie like Burton's Batman. There was no CGI, just lots of great miniature work.

I think, rather, it was books like Miller's The Dark Knight Returns & Moore's The Killing Joke that reinvigorated Batman, made him much more popular with audiences and, essentially, made him movie-worthy.
 
^^That's the recency illusion. Sequels have always been common.

Meh, sequels may have been just as common back then, but hugely successful sequels were not. Here are the top 10 grossing sequels of all time, adjusted for inflation:

1) The Empire Strikes Back
2) Return of the Jedi
3) The Phantom Menace
4) Thunderball
5) Shrek 2
6) Goldfinger
7) Pirates of the Caribbean: DMC
8) Return of the King
9) Spider-Man 2
10) Revenge of the Sith

6 of those are from the last 10 years! Compare that to the list of *all* films adjusted for inflation, where the most recent movie in the top 25 is Phantom Menace, which was 9 years ago. Plus, a sequel has been the top grossing movie of the year every year for the last *five* years in a row. That would have been unheard of 30 years ago. Maybe there were just as many sequels back then. Maybe, but if so, they didn't get nearly as much attention as sequels do today.
 
^^The statement was not about how successful the sequels were. The statement I was refuting was that they weren't "as automatic" then as they are today.
 
^ The Bond movies, Our Man Flint & In Like Flint, the Cannonball Run series, the Airport movies, Smokey & The Bandit, Rocky & sequels, the Godfather movies, French Connection 1 & 2, Jaws 1 & 2, SW & ESB - just some of the films that spawned sequels in the 1960s and 1970s.
 
What is different in cinema between "then" & now is the advent of the summer blockbuster. If I understand correctly, it really wasn't until Jaws & then Star Wars that such a thing existed. Of course, blockbusters cost lots of money to make and a safer bet for studios is to invest in a known entity, thus lots of big budget sequels.

Although some sequels stretch the definition a little bit. The Two Towers & Return of the King were shot at the same time as Fellowship, so it wasn't like New Line(?) waited to see how the first one did before going into production on the others.
 
That was also a tremendous financial risk for New Line, though - if The Fellowship of the Ring had flopped, they'd have been left holding the bag for the other two films, and even though they could have halted production/post-production, it's well-documented that it would likely have been the end of the studio (of course, New Line has just recently gone away anyway, but that's a whole 'nother story).
 
Because sequels are more successful today, I think we actually do get more of them than we used to. Though I don't have any hard numbers to back that up, and wouldn't know exactly where to go to find such numbers. Of course, that doesn't mean that sequels weren't also common back in the day, just not quite as much.

And I do think that the big tentpole releases by the studios are more dominated by sequels and movies based on existing properties (rather than "original" movies) than they used to be. (This is not to say that "franchise" movies are automatically bad, whereas "original" ones are good.)

Just look at the big "tentpole" releases of last summer:

Spider-Man 3 (sequel)
Shrek 3 (sequel)
Pirates 3 (sequel)
Harry Potter 5 (sequel)
Transformers (based on well known existing property)

It was not always like that.
 
Sure, there weren't as many big sequel blockbusters in the past, but that's because there weren't as many big blockbusters, period. Sequels have always been a mainstay of the movie business. In fact, I daresay there were more long-running movie series in the '40s than there are today, because from the '50s onward, TV started taking over as the source of series programming. But there were 7 Hope-Crosby Road to... pictures, 10 Ma & Pa Kettle films, 14 Basil Rathbone Sherlock Holmes films, 23 Laurel & Hardy films (not counting shorts), 28 Blondie & Dagwood films, 36 Abbott & Costello films, 47 Charlie Chan films, 68 East Side Kids/Bowery Boys movies, etc. The number of long-running film series in the past few decades pales in comparison. James Bond, Star Trek, Harry Potter, Friday the 13th, and maybe a couple of other horror franchises are the only modern American or British film series I'm aware of that have more than six installments. (And of course the Japanese have been churning out Godzilla and other kaiju movies since the '50s.)
 
The biggest difference between now and 1970s is that super hero movies are a bit easier to make. You can make heros do so much more with computers now. You had to basically do almost everything in the Superman or Batman movies. But that's probably been true since the late 80s really. And there may have been on big one each year if you look at it. Before the 1980s it took years to produce and film these things because computers were far less advanced. Now you have multiple types of these movies. That probably wasn't even the same way in the 90s.
 
ThYou had to basically do almost everything in the Superman or Batman movies.

And that's why they looked so much more convincing. The crane work in the Superman films was amazing.
Consider: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFFAUxonWRk&feature=related

or the terrific shot at 1:41 of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERxtri8glLE&feature=related

Ignore the muddy colors of the costume in that second one, it was meant to connote evil Superman. Oh wait - they used them for Superman Returns.
 
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I will say that one of the only good things about S3 is that Bob Harmon's wire crew had really gotten the take-offs and landings down by then. Spectacular and effortless.
 
It took 27 years to get a great Batman film. We got a good (admittedly flawed) Batman film in 1989.

I think we didn't see a boom in superhero flicks because it was just too difficult and expensive to even come close to translating what was on the page of a comic book to the silver screen. It took the advent of CGI to give us believable superhero powers on the big screen.
And even after that, they made a complete snorefest in Superman Returns.

What I have trouble understanding is how come the comic books of Superman are so beautifully written and illustrated but the movies suck sweaty udders? Why do the studios have to actually hire movie-writing writers as opposed to comic book writers, or at least have the latter as creative consultants? They did it with Iron Man and the movie is a plus for both the comics and the movie audience.
 
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