Big day for Harry Kim fans
Why Didn't Harry Get Promoted?
- Thread starter Akiraprise
- Start date
To a great extent, you're right. I actually have three tiers, though. Top tier was J/7/EMH. Mid tier was Tom, Torres, Tuvok. And Neelix, Chakotay, and Harry were the worst neglected.
Even so, they had three separate scenes that made a big deal over Harry still being stuck at ensign. If Harry was truly a character they didn't care about... why do that? In "Night", two months have passed off-screen. It's the perfect opportunity to just have Harry be a lieutenant, with exactly zero scenes devoted to the change.
In my middle age, that scene is an insult to the empathetic, compassionate Janeway we've always known.
I actually wrote an alternative version of that episode's ending that not only has Harry get his lieutenant pip (about 3y too late, but better than nothing), but he actually shows a hint of growth from the experience, and it shows the supportive Kathryn Janeway that we know and love. It's on Page 7 of this very topic, if you're interested.
Last edited:
The damage to Janeway's character in some episodes of the second half of Voyager series is something else to talk about. A separate thing.
Assuming he'd be going from Ensign to Lieutenant (jg) to Lieutenant to Lieutenant Commander is Harry getting over his skis a little bit for sure.
Depends on if he believes his own crew evaluations. Chakotay, who probably produces said evals, stated that Harry was one of Voyager's best people.
And remember that Will Riker shot up from ensign to full commander in 5-1/2 years: he was an ensign in the Pegasus incident, which was 12 years earlier, and at that point Riker had been on the Enterprise for 6-1/2 years.
So yes, Ensign to LCDR in 6-1/2 years is a stretch... but not an impossibility. And Harry should have been a full lieutenant by then.
I'd clarify that to "Ensign to LCDR" is "getting over his skis" without also including an increase in responsibilities either in department size, role or both.
Yeah, but that also involved him going from CONN to a Diplomatic Assignment then Ops Department Head role (and Second Officer?) on a much larger ship than his previous one, then promotion to First Officer on a sister ship, then a lateral move to First Officer of a larger, more prestigious ship again.
There's also a strong implication of at least one or two people pulling strings to accelerate his career.
Worf took five years to make lieutenant and jumped several rungs in the chain of command in the process.
LaForge took six years just to make JG, while like Harry holding very similar positions, but was quickly promoted once he took on a larger, more important position.
It was Wil Wheaton on TNG:
“One time, when we were renegotiating our contracts, we were all asking for raises.
“We all felt a salary increase was appropriate, because The Next Generation was a hit. It was making gobs of money for Paramount,” (I like that word – gobs) “and we felt that we should share in that bounty.
“Of course, Paramount felt otherwise, so a long and annoying negotiation process began.
“During that process, the producers’ first counteroffer was that, in lieu of a raise, they would give my character a promotion, to lieutenant.”
Well, huh. How about that. I hate Paramount even more now.
Star Trek's biggest tragedy is that this amazing story of a better future with all it's great characters and great stories were handled by greedy, narrow-minded people from the Dark Ages of the 20th and especially the 21st century.
As for this song, I just like it!
Harry Kim "Built" Astrometrics over the top of the Indian Burial Ground that was Stella Cartography.
Seven obsessed on Astrometrics, but do you think she did all the paper work, that she thought was pointless and stupid, and the duty shifts, and appraisals and... It's likely that Astrometrics was tucked under the Operations masthead, and Harry was quietly in charge of all that because although Seven could staff the consoles, and meter the astros, she was bullshit at managing staff without falling back on to tried and tested Borg Methodology, which was completely dysfunctional and dehumanizing.
Or maybe Seven had to answer to a Delaney, who treated the Admiral's granddaughter like Cinderella, working the poor little Borg to the bone?
When someone had an idea for something, especially a ship, it's a safe bet they turned to Harry to hammer it out into a reality.
- The SCE's fancy new runabout ("Non Sequitur")
- Tom's warp 10 shuttle ("Threshold")
- Seven's astrometrics lab ("Year of Hell")
- The Delta Flyer ("Extreme Risk")
- Refurbishment of "Alice"
Once he was debriefed, and the Admiralty realized just how essential he was, it's easy to surmise that he rocketed up through the ranks after Voyager returned home. The fact that he wasn't promoted for 7 years was just written off to Janeway's unique command style, and since the reprimand he got in "The Disease" was technically unjustified (since he was in an altered mental state at the time), it probably had little effect.
- The SCE's fancy new runabout ("Non Sequitur")
- Tom's warp 10 shuttle ("Threshold")
- Seven's astrometrics lab ("Year of Hell")
- The Delta Flyer ("Extreme Risk")
- Refurbishment of "Alice"
Once he was debriefed, and the Admiralty realized just how essential he was, it's easy to surmise that he rocketed up through the ranks after Voyager returned home. The fact that he wasn't promoted for 7 years was just written off to Janeway's unique command style, and since the reprimand he got in "The Disease" was technically unjustified (since he was in an altered mental state at the time), it probably had little effect.
He probably helped as he did with many other projects, built it was pretty strongly implied that Seven provided the expertise and did most of the work.
Yes.
Given that we both see and are told that she does.
That's not unusual, and at least we're shown her doing it, Harry's never really shown as a "manager" distinct from being a Bridge Officer.
While the names sound similar, there's never been any official connection between the Hansens and VADM JP Hanson AFAICT and it seems pretty clear to me that Seven is "senior staff" and doesn't by default answer to anyone other than the command team, and certainly not one of the Ensigns Delaney. If anything, I would suggest that they answer to her post-Astrometrics.
Last edited:
From Shattered
It's possible Voyager has both Astrometrics and Stellar Cartograhy running simultaneously, but that seems redundant. It's only possible that one of the Delanny sisters were in charge of Astrometrics, but what happened to them? A Department Head one day, guarding doorways for Tuvok the next day? How sad.
Unless Astrometrics is 5 times as automated as Stellar Cartography, it's doubtful that some of Stellar cartography was not reassigned to astrometrics, because what's Tuvok going to do with a growing surplus of Security Guards now that they don't trust the Equinox 5 to do anything else other than stand in front of people who have not committed genocides, like human shields?
This is Seven as a Team a manager in The Omega Directive.
Kim is in charge of the 5 guys who do Operations, when he is asleep, on away missions, or playing Holodeck with Tom. He's the first line in charge of their commendations, demerits, transfers, demotions and promotions, because that's what a Department Head does.
Kim is in charge of Kim's promotion. He could have promoted himself on day one.
Last edited:
Chakotay was already having credibility issues in that scene, it's reasonable IMO to assume that he left out Seven of Nine's contributions due to her presence on Future!Voyager being a complication he really didn't need at that point, so he credited Harry (who as the existing "sensor systems expert" would have helped with integration at least).
There's also little or now indication that he had anything to do with the day-to-day operation of Astrometrics, which would potentially be an "expansion of responsibilities" that could justify a promotion.
In theory, yeah.
Though we're never actually told or shown him doing any of that IIRC and Tuvok is described as managing several Department Heads (and their staff?), which would most logically include Harry.
But even if true, again that's not an increase in responsibilities as he appears to have been assigned that role when posted to Voyager in the first place.
Oh I do not believe he deserved a promotion for only doing exactly what is expected of him and no more.
On a ship that size, with a crew that small, the Head of Operations is an Ensign, even if Lieutenant Durst is on board, who is an operations officer, who outranks Harry. Weird huh?
Kim needed to shuck Operations, and move to a larger Department.
Which doesn't matter. Plenty of characters changed rank without changing jobs. Including Tom and Tuvok.
As a brand-new Starfleet graduate, it didn't make sense for Harry to be a department head anyway. He should have started out as a lower decker. Maybe he serves under Durst for a time, ascending to department head when the latter is killed.
Operations was just weird anyway. Data was Enterprise's operations officer, and he was the third in command. And O'Brien, DS9's operations chief, was a senior enlisted man. And on Voyager, an officer with zero experience held the post.
Chief of Operations is what they call a Chief Engineer on a Star Base,
Kim and O'Brien did not have the same job.
Yeah, I'd've gone with that.
Honestly, Data's rank only really makes sense if you assume that he's Second Officer first and his other role second.
Yup.
However, it should be noted that even IRL there is some overlap between senior enlisted and junior officers in terms of assignments, particularly in non-US Anglophone services where warrant officers and senior enlisted are often the same thing.
You're right, Kim has only about 1/2 to 1/3 of O'Brien's job, though he (though far less than Data) also occasionally dabbled as a Science Officer, at least until Seven's arrival, when she basically took over that role.
Data's rank made sense for his position... for a few years.
Not for 15 years, though.
Not for 15 years, though.
