Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by dHunter333, May 20, 2009.
Neelix got a good send off at least. The rest of the crew got screwed by that ridiculous finale.
Double exactly. I just don't see how you can find what happened to Neelix comparable with what happened to Kes, or Janeway, or any of the other personnel changes that bother you so much. I really really don't. Either your definition of "dumping" is a lot broader than mine - after all, the show was about to end anyway! - or your definition of "happy ending" is a lot more narrow.
Not only that, but anyone that's ever been in a commited relationship knows you don't choose your friends over your spouse. Your spouse is supposed to be the greatest friend you'll ever have.
Kes didn't die, so I don't see what happened to her as that bad. We are all born innocent, however during the course of our lives we don't stay that way. What the important point was, she go her life back on track in the end. Besides, everything she became Tanis told her would happen in "Coldfire". He told her: "Once your mental powers fully develope, you'll see humans and many other life forms as beneath you." Books aren't canon, so Janeway's death doesn't enter into anything. If Paramount desides in someway to use Janeway in a TV show or film, those books written about her death won't mean squat.
Then again, we are debating someone that's never actually watched the ep. in question.
Happy Ending doesn't necessarily mean "I'm happy with it"
Indeed. While I'd probably have preferred Neelix stay with the crew, I'm glad that the character got a happy ending when they decided to have him stay in the Delta Quadrant.
I wonder if he would have continued to earth after the next (of the possibly thousands and thousands out there trying to get home) Quicksilver Voyagers passed by on their way to earth?
I mean, a good idea can become bad quicklike.
Let's face it - moving in on a vulnerable woman and her son seems to suit the creepy nature of Neelix's character. I bet he was hanged off a lamp post in three weeks.
Oh come on now. Neelix was a great character who was ruined by the writers. His pre story material in Pathways was great, and his season 1 and 2 material was awesome. Mortal Coil is one of the best episodes ever; tis a shame though that his character was made into a creeper later in the series.
^ I gotta say, while my reaction to Neelix isn't as strong as Joe's...I always found him a bit creepy. I have no idea why. And for me it started during episode #1.
He got less creepy as the years went by, but then again, he also got less interesting. He was never my favorite character (and that's putting it mildly), but by the end he no longer made me go "Euw!" and I was glad he got a happy ending.
Maybe his neediness - because oh my goodness me was Neelix ever needy (with good reason, possibly) - was part of what made him a bit creepy?
^ There we go again.
While Neelix is far from my favorite character, I never understood the creepy vibe so many get from him. He was a nice enough fellow with an interesting backstory and a capable actor to portray him.
Oh, and I appreciated the conclusion to his character in season seven. That was a Happy End for him. And it was certainly better than what the other characters got.
^ I know, I know. It's just one of those things. Notice I don't say it's a rational thing. For me it's purely...visceral.
But he didn't start out as a nice fellow. He was a semi sleazy kind of guy at the beginning, using Voyager for his own ends and a free ride. He was also CRAZY jealous over Kes and I think that is where most of the creepy vibes come from. Plus his general appearance is off putting to a lot of people (including me).
But yeah, over time he did develop into quite a nice fellow. I liked him much better after Kes was out of the picture.
Yes, I noticed that. And I'm perfectly fine with that reasoning. Actually I find it very interesting how everyone's reactions to the various characters can differ so much. I was just teasing you because we had a similar conversation about Neelix' (alleged) creepiness once.
^ I remember. I believe that's when I coined the term euw-factor.
Edit: I do think that "CRAZY" jealousy Destro mentions is part of the problem. Neelix would get this kind of bug-eyed look and get all clingy and needy and demanding and desperate and weird(er). It was just icky. Effective, perhaps, and in character, but icky. And creepy!
I remember going over that before, but that crazy jealousy is actually something I like about the character. I do recognize it as a negative characteristic, but that doesn't mean that I don't like it (after all, megalomaniac Dukat is one of my favorite characters ).
I guess it's because I can be a very jealous guy myself in some situations (unfortunately in realtionships with people that mean very much to me). So in a way I can relate to that side of Neelix. I never thought his jealousy was portrayed as over-the-top unrealistic and I certainly would never describe it as creepy. I can see why others might do that. But I don't.
EDIT: Whoa, you revise your posts a lot, eh, Kate?
Yeah. It's because I'm a writer. Rewriting to make it better is "visceral" for me as well!
Oh, I wouldn't say it's "over the top" or "unrealistic." Ethan Phillips is a pretty good actor. If it had been, it probably wouldn't have been so creepy. He actually reminded me a LOT of a former co-worker of mine, an otherwise nice guy who used to get that same bug-eyed look when he was about to get compulsively weird about something and make the rest if us wonder if maybe he needed some counseling...or Prozac.
Guys in real life who get bug-eyed and clingy and needy and demanding and desperate and weird(er) can be kind of creepy. They aren't always, but the way he'd clutch at Kes...
Nope, I just didn't like it, as I think I may have mentioned before now...
^ I guess that more or less confirms that you'd find me creepy, too.
^ Just try to control the bug-eyed thing and we'll be fine.
^ Actually I had to look up bug-eyed. And no, I don't think you'd ever consider me that.
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