Why did people complain about Khan's white-washing in STID...

[Peach Wookiee]

In-universe, I think it works. Out-of-universe, I rather liked both Khans. And Cumber-Khan came across as more of a cold psycho, I think.
Now, a matter of housekeeping, guys. If you're going to talk about whitewashing in regards to gaming only, please take it to Gaming down the hall. And as always, keep things civil.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

So have we settled on anything about nuKhan? Is the comic's explanation (that he was surgically altered) a reasonable one?

Sure it is. "John Harrison" wouldn't be of much use to Section 31 if people recognized him, would he?

Out-of-universe, they just found the best actor for the job, and figured let the fans argue however they want. (It's really no different than any other recasting that has ever been done.) Works for me.

 

[fireproof78]

So have we settled on anything about nuKhan? Is the comic's explanation (that he was surgically altered) a reasonable one?

Sure it is. "John Harrison" wouldn't be of much use to Section 31 if people recognized him, would he?

Out-of-universe, they just found the best actor for the job, and figured let the fans argue however they want. (It's really no different than any other recasting that has ever been done.) Works for me.

I agree. In-universe, if historical records are still around, someone could put the pieces together. It's how Kirk determined it in "Space Seed."

Out of universe, there will never be a satisfactory explanation. Shouldn't have been Khan, should have been del Toro, etc. It's unfortunate when real world concerns impact a movie's production, but it happens.

 

[urbandefault]

Looking at the opposite side, the Harewood family is obviously of South Asian descent (judging by the actors cast). Why an English surname? Wouldn't a name reflecting their ethnicity have been better?

I'm wondering if it was a conscious choice, or as Bob Ross would say, just a happy accident.

 

[Makarov]

I'm just glad they didn't dye Cumberbatch's skin and fake an accent like the guy in Short Circuit.

As for the Sarkeesian thing I don't follow her stuff but I do know women often get screwed over when it comes to video game representations. Luckily one of my favorite series Mortal Kombat, is finally having female characters look more like real women in MKX and I'm really happy to support that.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Looking at the opposite side, the Harewood family is obviously of South Asian descent (judging by the actors cast). Why an English surname?

Because Thomas Harewood is obviously English, and his wife took his name when they married.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Looking at the opposite side, the Harewood family is obviously of South Asian descent (judging by the actors cast). Why an English surname? Wouldn't a name reflecting their ethnicity have been better?

I'm wondering if it was a conscious choice, or as Bob Ross would say, just a happy accident.

The dad is black, played by British actor Noel Clarke.

 

[urbandefault]

Looking at the opposite side, the Harewood family is obviously of South Asian descent (judging by the actors cast). Why an English surname?

Because Thomas Harewood is obviously English, and his wife took his name when they married.

Hmm.

I haven't seen anyone object to the Harewood family's ethnicity in relation to the surname, and rightly so.

But then, can we not guess that Khan, though genetically engineered, might have been raised (and named) by Sikh parents in northern India?

I'm just spitballing here.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Looking at the opposite side, the Harewood family is obviously of South Asian descent (judging by the actors cast). Why an English surname?

Because Thomas Harewood is obviously English, and his wife took his name when they married.

Hmm.

I haven't seen anyone object to the Harewood family's ethnicity in relation to the surname, and rightly so.

But then, can we not guess that Khan, though genetically engineered, might have been raised (and named) by Sikh parents in northern India?

I'm just spitballing here.

As demonstrated by actor Noel Clarke, a non Anglo with an English name isn't usual. America is full of citizens of African decent with English/European names. Britain has a few as well.

 

[urbandefault]

Because Thomas Harewood is obviously English, and his wife took his name when they married.

Hmm.

I haven't seen anyone object to the Harewood family's ethnicity in relation to the surname, and rightly so.

But then, can we not guess that Khan, though genetically engineered, might have been raised (and named) by Sikh parents in northern India?

I'm just spitballing here.

As demonstrated by actor Noel Clarke, a non Anglo with an English name isn't usual. America is full of citizens of African decent with English/European names. Britain has a few as well.

Yes, I know. But that wasn't what I asked.

Think about it. A genetically engineered baby, adopted by a Sikh family from northern India. The family might even live in England. These are dots that are not that hard to connect.

Only "enlightened" Trek fans would dare to limit a character's appearance to what his name suggests.

That was my point with the Harewoods.

So, we have a pasty white Brit with a foreign name. Big deal. What does he do, what is his motivation? These are the relevant questions. The fact that the writers stuffed in a bunch of references to TWOK is nothing but a misstep. A good idea that was poorly executed.

I see no racism there, and in my opinion, people spend way too much time looking for it. But that's a whole 'nother topic.

 

[Ithekro]

The issue wouldn't be Khan and his name. The issue would be that the character, as introduced in "Space Seed" is refered to as probably a Sikh. There by the writers have placing his origin. The audiance has a ready image of this character via the performance in Space Seed. TWOK is accepted mostly because it is the same actor. STID gets flak for many things. The idea being that they potentally changed Khan's origin, yet didn't. That makes it very odd. This Khan has only been out of his tube a year, so the tan he had in Space Seed might have gone away being stuck in labs designing weapon systems for Marcus. (more finding more deadly ways to use existing hardware than designing new technology)

 

[Smellmet]

I'm still trying to figure out why this thread isn't in the Star Trek Movies XI+ section

 

[Peach Wookiee]

Because the discussion had MontalKhan and CumberKhan.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

At least I'm not wasting my time being a big, outright conniving bitch complaining about video games that I don't even play

... aaand I think we're done here.

For those interested in further reading / viewing, we had a thread on and around this sub-topic over in Misc. in which we eventually got round to actually watching some of Anita Sarkeesian's videos (with a side order of debunking common falsehoods about them that seem mostly to stem from a certain YouTube personality with whom much of the frothing fury about Sarkeesian among GamerGate dead-enders seems to have originated). Enjoy.

BTW, Jake, I didn't mean you were the bitch, I meant Anita Sarkesian-hope that clears it up.

And no, #NotYourShield isn't a hate group, either.

 

[Zaku]

At least I'm not wasting my time being a big, outright conniving bitch complaining about video games that I don't even play

... aaand I think we're done here.

For those interested in further reading / viewing, we had a thread on and around this sub-topic over in Misc. in which we eventually got round to actually watching some of Anita Sarkeesian's videos (with a side order of debunking common falsehoods about them that seem mostly to stem from a certain YouTube personality with whom much of the frothing fury about Sarkeesian among GamerGate dead-enders seems to have originated). Enjoy.

BTW, Jake, I didn't mean you were the bitch, I meant Anita Sarkesian-hope that clears it up.

And no, #NotYourShield isn't a hate group, either.

You know, there are other places in the Trekbbs where you can discuss about Anita and stuff without derailing this one....

 

[BeatleJWOL]

The best way to avoid a derailment is to let the car go off the rails on its own without bringing the rest of the train along. Reporting the wayward car with the offensive graffiti on it to the railway safety commission helps too.

The comic's explanation was totally unnecessary as a storytelling measure and would not address whitewashing, which is a real-world industry (not in-setting/fanwank) concern. IMO.

I want to argue half of this because it is THE second biggest thing bothering me about Into Darkness...but I can't argue the fact that it is fanwankery connecting of the dots. Still, they wouldn't have had to dwell on it.

Well agreed on the whitewashing issue, though.

 

[Maurice]

BTW, Jake, I didn't mean you were the bitch, I meant Anita Sarkesian-hope that clears it up.

That word choice speaks volumes. I'm out.

 

[BigJake]

BTW, Jake, I didn't mean you were the bitch, I meant Anita Sarkesian-hope that clears it up.

Well agreed on the whitewashing issue, though.

Cheers.

 

[{ Emilia }]

BTW, Jake, I didn't mean you were the bitch, I meant Anita Sarkesian-hope that clears it up.

And no, #NotYourShield isn't a hate group, either.

Yes, it is. And calling one of the gamergate victims a bitch is something we seriously don't need here. Take your misogynistic agenda somewhere else. I don't see how it's relevant to this specific forum either.

 

[Jedi_Master]

The comic's explanation was totally unnecessary as a storytelling measure and would not address whitewashing, which is a real-world industry (not in-setting/fanwank) concern. IMO.

I do think it was motivated by internal (out of universe) concerns that having a white actor would cause some fuss in the fan community.

So have we settled on anything about nuKhan? Is the comic's explanation (that he was surgically altered) a reasonable one?

Sure it is. "John Harrison" wouldn't be of much use to Section 31 if people recognized him, would he?

Out-of-universe, they just found the best actor for the job, and figured let the fans argue however they want. (It's really no different than any other recasting that has ever been done.) Works for me.

I happen to agree, although I do think that it is rather troubling how often the "best actor for the job" is white.