Why did Nero care so much about the Defense codes?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Commodore_Rook, Feb 4, 2011.

  1. Commodore_Rook

    Commodore_Rook Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    When he "captures" Pike and insists he tell him the defense codes for Earth, Pike refuses and even forces that Mind Slug into his mouth to get the codes. Why did Nero even need them? Clearly nothing Starfleet had could even dent the Narada (as evident at Vulcan), there fore, was a waste of time. (yes I know, that was a plot device to "cripple" Pike so Kirk could take command and all that, but still, a futile excercise by Nero)
     
  2. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well, Starfleet are a resourceful bunch. Nero had some knowledge of Earth (he knew Spock served on the Enterprise, and he recognized Kirk) and the Federation, so he probably knows about some or all of the instances where Earth's been on the verge of destruction yet pulled through (Xindi, V'Ger, whale probe, Borg, Borg again etc).

    Better to be safe than sorry.
     
  3. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It was a useful way to kill some time and padd out the movie.
     
  4. UssGlenn

    UssGlenn Commodore Commodore

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    definitely just a plot devise, but I we have to come up with a logical explanation...Since Earth is the location of Starfleet HQ and Vulcan isn't, perhaps Vulcan doesn't have the kind of planetary defenses Earth does and thus Nero doesn't need to get codes for Vulcan since there is nothing there to shut down.
     
  5. Gojira

    Gojira Commodore Commodore

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    It really is quite logical. I am sure in the 23rd century Earth has some space based security systems to ward off an alien attack and Nero wants to immobilize them in order for his drill to work so he can destroy the Earth.
     
  6. bullethead

    bullethead Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That plus he burned through most of his missiles after blowing up all those Klingon ships, probably all of Vulcan's orbital defenses, blowing up the Starfleet task force sent to Vulcan, and putting a salvo into the Enterprise.
     
  7. Crazy Eddie

    Crazy Eddie Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's a Romulan thing. Shinzon needed them too for some reason, despite the fact that HIS ship could fire while cloaked. I guess it's some sort of Romulan warrior tradition that you must first extract your enemy's security code, or his briefcase code, or his locker combination, or his ATM pin number, or SOMETHING, before you're morally justified in attacking his planet.

    We don't really know that, do we? Earth's defenses are probably quite a bit tougher than Vulcan's, and Nero might be aware that, powerful as he is, he doesn't quite have enough ammunition to fight off four dozen orbiting phaser platforms all while drilling through the planet's core.
     
  8. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't understand why it should be that Earth's defences should be so much stronger than Vulcan. Isn't Vulcan closer to the Neutral Zone? If it's defences are weaker then it's yet another example of terrible writing or rather of a hopelessly inept Federation.

    I favour the logic that Nero burned a lot of his resources but they had several opportunities to dent his invincibility (e.g. that he travels to Earth at less than warp 4 because his ship has been damaged in the fight with the Federation ships) but chose to gloss over the details. For some reason they want him to appear overwhelmingly invincable despite the fact that there is more excitement when the foes are more evenly matched per TWoK and this leaves us scratching our heads when they use these plot devices without any plot to back them up.
     
  9. Crazy Eddie

    Crazy Eddie Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Why would you have expected him to give those details in the first place? It's bad enough that he's started monologing about his Feindish Master Plan, now you're expecting him to give Pike the latest damage reports and inventory lists?
     
  10. doublegoodprole

    doublegoodprole Captain Captain

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    I dunno...it seems that even as of 2367 Earth's space defenses consist largely of ships named Enterprise, a few pathetic ships near Mars, and just hanging there helplessly in space.
     
  11. G2309

    G2309 Captain Captain

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    Anything that gives him an advantage is worth getting. He doesn't want to sustain unecessary ship damage.
     
  12. UFO

    UFO Captain Captain

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    Yeah and he still thought he could win! He must have been crazy. :vulcan:
     
  13. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I figure it's becuase Nero though it would save him the trouble of having to take those defenses out, which is also probably why V'ger hacked the Earth defense systems in TMP dispite being all powerful.
     
  14. ST-One

    ST-One Vice Admiral

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    Of course.
     
  15. 6079SmithW

    6079SmithW Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well, Nero needed a way to circumvent starfleet's defenses because even the Narada would not be able to fend off an entire fleet of ships. The battle with the Kelvin was just one ship and the task force sent to vulcan was taken by surprise.

    Nero did not know that most of starfleet was in another system and for all he knew earth, being the heart of the federation, was heavily guarded by fleets of ships as well as orbital defenses. His need for the defense codes was valid.

    Even if Nero had somehow found out that most of starfleet was not at sol, we don't know if there were orbital defenses in place. Despite having a formidable ship, how would the Narada fair against say a hundred orbital weapons platforms firing continuously at the same time? It was a necessary precaution.
     
  16. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    We seem to be awfully worried that Nero needed the codes for Earth but not for Vulcan. Yet how can we be so sure he didn't have the codes for Vulcan?

    Nero was very successful in capturing key personnel throughout the movie. He got Robau, he got Spock, he got Pike. Quite possibly he got somebody with Vulcan defense codes, too. He had a juggernaut, but he didn't have a warship; most of his victories were probably through cunning rather than through brute force. To be sure, we don't even know if he really defeated 47 Klingon ships; that might have been but a ruse to get most of Starfleet to Laurentius and to instill fear in the remainder...

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  17. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, I was thinking of dialogue like that between Khan and Joachim for the benefit of the audience. Still it's a good point that Nero might have spent his 25 years looking for someone who knew Vulcan's defence codes.
     
  18. Search4

    Search4 Captain Captain

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    My own theory - he's highly vulnerable while hovering in one place and lowering an unshielded, very long and thin, drill that presumably must work in atmosphere due to the heat exhaust. We actually saw the drill "sabotaged" by hand phasers and taken out by a ship later in the movie. So any defense capability at all could take the drill out. Heck, WE could take it out today with an appropriate airplane.

    So i'd argue the 'defense codes' are all about making sure he has the requisite time to drill.

    My other theory: one of the plot decisions is that he drills at all, rather than fire a red matter bomb into, oh say, the sun, and ignite it there... it worked fine in the supernova, for example. Equally bad for earth. I am thinking that he could do that - the supernova bomb is shown on screen - but its dangerous in that he might not be able to escape the resultant black hole.. . which is what happened the first time.
     
  19. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    One counter-theory is that Vulcan experiences seismic disturbances before Nero cuts off communications via the drill. This could suggest an unsuccessful attempt to deploy the red matter some other way. Despite his big ship, Nero is still a miner, not a scientist. It may be that he didn't really know what he was doing.
     
  20. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That's a very nice explanation for the otherwise strange report of seismic disturbances.

    Two other possibilities:

    2) Seismic disturbances were created by black hole travel - perhaps they marked Spock's arrival in the general vicinity and the report was somewhat delayed, or perhaps they marked Nero's use of black holes for moving his big ship around.

    3) There were no seismic disturbances. This was another of Nero's ruses, as he supposedly could jam all 23rd century communications at will. First he lured most of Starfleet to Laurentius by false reports of Klingon/Romulan nastiness there, then he lulled the remainder to a false sense of security regaring what was really going on at Vulcan.

    Timo Saloniemi